Behavior problems with a new pup. Help!!!

[Jesse's GP]

I need help.

I have been away from the forum as I have been busy but I am now forced to take the time and sincerely ask for your help.

I got Allie a few weeks ago. She was going great with my goats...up until now.
She isn't as calm as I was told and is actually quite wild at times.
She did chase the chicks a few times, which I tried getting to to quite that but she still does it if she had the chance.
Not sure what went wrong as she was raised with all animals...even chickens.
As of 2-3 days ago she started chasing my goats
I CAN NOT have that.

The reason was while I was gone working my siblings didnt close the goat door and they got out. So to herd them back in they trained MY pup to herd/chase them in. I saw it as I was pulling in. I was so mad.
Keep telling them she isn't a herd dog. She has also been trained to herd the turkeys in

So now I just spent $350 on a doeling and my pup is chasing her mostly.
Now I can't keep them together anymore. Allie sleeps in the milk parlor now.

During the day I have been tying Allie out...as she doesn't like being cooped up inside. When I am with her I let her loose and have been working with her when I can trying to leash train her.
Ideally she would be in a fence with the goats by day and inside with them at night. However it has been too hot to where I prefer to leave the goats in and run a fan. Also my fence is down and I am installing a new one and waiting for a 20 mile fence charger to come in the mail.

I guess I didnt do enough research. Hopfully I didnt ruin a good pup

Also tonight she was "playing" rough with the goats as they were eating their hay. They always counter-attack, which seemed to please Allie.
She would jump at them, threatening, she would even chew on their ears (just put them in her mouth...no damage done).

I have never seen her act like this. She has always been good tempered.
Of course through all this she was super hyper...maybe was trying to play but I can't have her play like this.

Just this morning she would still give her favorite doe kisses like she usually does every milking time. She has always liked the one doe. She would give her "kisses", put her front paws on her (and surprisingly the goat didnt mind), and sometimes even sleep with her. Many "cute" moments with that pair...then tonight she is acting up.
Although she was gentlest with her favorite doe (Juna), she still was rough enough that Juna fought back.

And I thought I was making progress with this girl. Taught her to sit, lay down, and sometimes roll over. Leash training is coming. She leads, with some persuasion at times. Sometimes she takes the leash in her mouth...which I don't allow or sometimes tries to get ahead(which I also don't allow).I pet her while she eats and never any aggression while eating. She is always happy to see me. A nice puppy.

Now can I teach her to stop chasing the goats and playing rough with them?
How do I correct the damage done?
Obviously I need to take more time to research and see what I am doing wrong.

I got this pup for a days work on the agreement that she would have a forever home...just she won't have a forever home with my herd if she doesn't come out of this. HELP!!!

[Davey Benson]

If you are seeing good results with the tricks you are training your dog to do (the sit, stay, etc.) A new good one to learn would be the "leave it" command.... and then you could use that with the goats.

[TexasKat]

Allie is too young (14 weeks if my guestimate is right) to be alone with the livestock. She is a PUPPY and puppies play. Before you got her she was with other LGD's right?

That's how it's done. Young LGDs learn from older ones (till about 12-18 months) what is proper behavior and what isn't. At Allie's age, LGD pups aren't mature enough and don't have enough impulse control or good judgement to be left alone with that much temptation.

It's like having an 8-year old babysit an infant. It's just a disaster waiting to happen.

[pyr haven]

u need
1. strong fence 2.supervised together time 3. leashed pup 4.hopefully a coperative teen goat 5. treats 6. bottle/can wit coins inside

like davey said LEAVE IT is so very useful, i've tried also GENTLE and KISSES with varying success. pyrs play rough, even I have toppled but somehow my pyrs are real gentle with small babies.

Watch out for agressive goat like new mothers, they can cause real harm to the pup.

It'll take a long time of constant repetitive positive behaviours reinforcement but it'll be a good investment. It's probably a piece of cake compared to human

good luck

[Jewel]

Question for you, have you raised puppies before? The behaviors you are describing are entirely normal for puppies. In your post, you sound like you are expecting your less than 4 month-old puppy to behave like a well trained adult LGD. Just like human children, puppies have to be taught what is expected of them and that takes more than a few short weeks. Your pup was "calm" when you first got her because she was extremely young and had not yet developed enough motor skills to run and chase and jump. As the pup grows and becomes stronger physically and more curious mentally and she'll look for things to entertain her. You have to find an outlet for her energy. If not, she'll find her own entertainment which you have already found to be unacceptable. Your job to teach her proper behavior will go on for the next 12 months. I know I am not giving you specific methods on how to train your pup but I think it's equally important that you understand a puppy's development process so that you understand the importance of your own role in her development and not have unrealistic expectations.

Don't know what all research you've done but you need to read up on the process of raising a LGD, or find a mentor whom you can ask questions. One book that's been recommended is: Livestock Protection Dogs, by Orysia Dawydiak and David E. Sims. Or does anyone know of a discussion forum specifically for LGD owners that Jesse can get more hands-on information?

[Davey Benson]

I didn't even notice the age of the dog in the origional post. ya.... My pyrs weren't even around livestock untill they were well over a year old... perhaps around a year and a half.

[BK-47]

Try www.backyardherds.com. They have a forum on LGDs that can answer some of your questions. This sounds like a good pup that you are expecting way too much from at this age.

[Espinay]

She is a pup. She will need supervision for a LONG time yet. She needs to be kept separate from the stock unless you are there! You are expecting way too much from her at this age.

Go to www.lgd.org and click on the library page. You will find LOTS of good articles there. I also stronglt recommend joining the LGD-L email list. This is a VERY good long time list with lots of VERY experienced people with working LGD among others. If it IMO one ofthe best lists out there for good quality info on LGD. You will find the link for this also on the LGD.org website.

[Jesse's GP]

Originally Posted by Espinay

She is a pup. She will need supervision for a LONG time yet. She needs to be kept separate from the stock unless you are there! You are expecting way too much from her at this age.

Go to www.lgd.org and click on the library page. You will find LOTS of good articles there. I also stronglt recommend joining the LGD-L email list. This is a VERY good long time list with lots of VERY experienced people with working LGD among others. If it IMO one ofthe best lists out there for good quality info on LGD. You will find the link for this also on the LGD.org website.

I did read that they need supervision while together (stock and pup that is).
Usually she has been in the milk parlor. Only a few nights (more like 5+) did I leave her with them overnight. I get tired at the end of the day and sometimes forget everything important. So it wasn't all intentionally. Yes, for several nights I did leave them together intentionally, but I didnt see it as a threat and I was told they could be together...should have done the 1st one on that (separation and supervision) But The times they were together before (many times while I was out doing chores) I never noticed an issue.
She was always gentle and usually just went to a corner to lay down.
After chores I tie her out, been doing that for 2+ weeks.

Just now she seems to have this obsession for chasing them...that I never noticed before. I was asking how I can correct her of this.
I mean if I need to be supervising her while she is with them how do I correct her of what she is doing wrong?

If she needs to be totally isolated from the goats till 1 year old or something...I will have to get her set with a kennel or something.
Although I hear GP's hate kennels as they feel caged.


I have never raised great pyrenees. I have raised goldens and beagles mutts...but that was a long time ago. Of course puppies like to play. Feel stupid re-reading my thread, I was stressed, depressed, and tired.
Sometimes I don't make sence even to myself.

I have to go to bed...the words I type are getting harder to see.
I wish I could be sleeping better as I have been having many bad days without proper sleep.

Need to take some time to research and re-research.
I have been busy the past few weeks but things are slowing down so I will have more time. Also nice as I will have more time to leash train her and work on obedience. Hope to have at least an hour a day with her, before it was only a 1/2 hr. Have been taking an hour everyday just to leash train 2 goat kids for the upcoming show also.Anyways, I will check out that link.

[Espinay]

The reason for supervision is that so when she decides to 'have a game' you can stop it immediately by correcting her for it. This type of behaviour is common in pups and teenage dogs so something that needs to be watched for. This way the behaviour is stopped before it gets a chance to start and she learns that it is 'no fun'. As it has started (and she has found it is fun), it may take a little longer for her to 'unlearn' so you will have to be even more vigilant.

Do you mean you are not sure how to issue a correction? Basically you need to be a good leader for your pup. You need to be able to get to her quickly and basically put the fear of god in her. So make sure you are in an area that is small enough to manage this - or have her on a long dragline such as a horse lunge line that you can get to easily to arrest her progress. No hitting! - I use a loud ARRRGGGHHHHHH!!! with angry eyes etc etc. WHILE she is doing it. No use doing it when she is running happily back to you for instance. You need to associate the correction directly with the action, so watch her body language and the second she is posturing to take an interest/play/chase, correct her.

If no one is there to correct her, she will continue to think it is a game and fun. And the behaviour will likely escalate. It needs to be nipped in the bud and the only way to do that is to make her understand through correction that it is not on and not the fun game she thinks it is.

Yes, pups can sometimes be hard work. It can be tiring (ask me about tired LOL!) but putting the work in is rewarding in the long run and actually creates less work and stress later.