Vet vs Breeder advice

[Rahlcepx516]

Hey everyone, I am having a lot of pressure from both sides of the fence here and would like to get a community opinion on two touchy subject from experienced owners. Our vet is part of our family, just to keep in mind.

Vet says, "Remove the double dews now while she is young when you get her spayed, that way when she gets older there is not a risk of anesthetic issues if they start to get ingrown...etc."

Breeder says, "Under no circumstances let the vet talk you into removing the double dews. They are vital to a pyrs health...etc."

Where I stand. I believe the double dews are there for a reason. I am 95% for keeping the dews, but the 5% of me wonders what COULD happen if they stay on and they start to become ingrown, even with proper maintenance and care. The vet made sure to instill a lot of horrible thoughts of what could be to me... I am worried that the anesthetics for the procedure may kill her at an older age, etc. Keep in mind the vet is family.




Onto the next subject...

Vet says.. "Feed her large breed puppy, it will reduce the risk of several health issues in large dogs like her, and the carnitine in science diet will help with growth."

Breeder says... "Feed the dog a well balanced adult formula."

Where I stand. For one, most large breed puppy foods come from brands like science diet, etc... While kibble is kibble, I feed/fed Nature's Variety Prairie kibble to all my dogs with great success.

Anyways, to compare...
What I feed.
http://www.naturesvariety.com/Prairie/dog/kibble/beef

Comparison to large breed puppy.
http://www.hillspet.com/products/sd-...breed-dry.html

Compare the ingredients. They both are somewhat similar in % contents. The only thing I am seeing the science diet has that the prairie does, besides a ton of corn, is carnitine. If that is the case.. Why can't I just supplement the food I am feeding with carnitine?

[Davey Benson]

I'm not a vet, I'm not a breeder... I'm just an enthusiast. I have been owned by many dogs over the years. I'm aquainted with a lot of different "quarks" about many breeds, either by first hand experience, or by reading.

Here's my opinion.

Double dew claws are special to pyrs, like a horn is special to a unicorn. I would remove them if they are currently causing a health issue. I will NOT remove them just in case they may, someday, down the road, perhaps, might cause a problem. If you have a competant vet, they should be able to provide anathesia without killing your dog, if not, I would seek out a new vet.

If you do have the claws removed it's not the end of the world for your dog, and it's true that dew claws do require maintanence, so if you think you just can't keep the claws trimmed, then maybe you should have they removed. I sort of think it's like sayin, I can't keep my teeth brushed, so I think I will just go ahead and pull all my teeth out so I won't have to loose them later? Also some people just don't have time for the constant brushing and trimming that a Great Pyrenees requires. (those people are better off with a small short haired breed)

On the topic of food. I have only fed my two pyr puppies science diet lrg breed formula, (and the occassional treat, like pb, or canned something) but when this bag runs out (they are about 11 months old) they will be getting the same kibble that everyone else gets, no more science diet. (they seem to prefer the taste of the other anyway) I've read that the large breed puppies are prone to rapid bone growth, so you want to make sure that what you feed them isn't too high in calcium.

The carnitine is much like glucosimine, it's for joint health, and you can always add that to the diet. You can get Glucosimine pills at the vet clinic, but I have found biscuts that have 500 mg of Glucos in them, and the dogs like the taste of them. I give them to my geriatric dogs and to the pyrs. Some people swear by kibble, some people swear at it. I say it depends on your budget, and the health of your animal. Feed your dog what it does best on, if it fairs well on kibble go that route, if it really needs a raw diet, has grain allergies, etc., go that way, (I don't think any dog does well on a diet of steamed veggies, sorry viegans)

[Jewel]

Loaded questions indeed!

Unlike sporting breeds, the double dew claws on pyrs are not removed as it is one of their breed traits. Is your pyr a working dog or a pet? If it is a working dog working in an environment that is dense in vegetation and undergrowth then I can see somewhat of a justification to remove the dewclaws as a precautionary measure. If it is a pet, then I personally see NO reason to remove the dewclaws. Remember, sporting dogs such as labs are sent through dense undergrowth to retrieve, and thus it is easy for their dewclaws to get caught and ripped in the process. Pyrs are not normally high energy dogs that are sent through similar terrain at a full run, thus the chances of getting their dewclaws getting caught are drastically reduced. Is your relative vet familiar with the breed? Is he/she speaking from experience specifically with pyrs getting their dewclaws ripped? If the nails on the dewclaws are not trimmed on a regular basis the nails will curve into the pads - this is an issue of neglect. But if the dog's nails are regularly trimmed, I've never heard of, and can't see how, you would have ingrown issues with the dewclaws.

With respect to food, Nature's Variety is a good quality food that has acceptable calcium to phospherous ratio for a large breed puppy. In fact, the Nature's Variety food has higher calorie per cup than Science Diet, and therefore your pup would actually eat less of the Nature's Variety than Sciecne Diet. The debate about adult maintenance foods is that it has less calories than the large breed puppy food thus causing the pup to have to eat more of the adult food - eating more means taking in more calcium, thus raising the possibility that the pup is taking in too much calcium - the culprit that causes excessive growth. But this does not seem the case between Nature's Variety and Science Diet - on paper, that is. If I were you, I would stick with Nature's Variety. Don't get me started on ingredients

I don't know that much about carnitine, but I know that it is not one of the essential amino acids that dogs require or they will die. Cats, for example, must have adequate amount of taurine in their diet or they will suffer heart problems and will die. There is not a similar type of problem with dogs. Just did a quick search on carnitine and it seems to be something that dog food companies have picked up to try and help dogs lose weight. I am thinking that there is no reason to supplement your pup with carnitine.

My personall two cents for ya. Welcome!!

[Rahlcepx516]

Thanks for the reply Davey, I too have owned plenty of dogs in my life, just nothing big like a pyr =P

Glucosimine! Thanks for that tip off for that as well. I knew there was something similar sold in supplements.

Well, also about the dews, is that once she gets older, the majority of the growth will be done and I am also worried about the long term problems that may arise from the removal at a late age.

[Rahlcepx516]

Is your pyr a working dog or a pet?

Pet.

Is your relative vet familiar with the breed?

No.

Don't get me started on ingredients

I like you already.

[Tsunibear]

If you are willing to keep up on trimming the dew claws then by all means keep them. I didn't have say in whether Missy kept her dews or not. The one she had was removed when she was 3 days old. Seeing how she is a mix they didn't feel it necessary to keep them on. Her mother and grandmother both had their dew claws still when I went to go pick Missy out, but Missy and her siblings had them removed due to being a mutt.
I have seen in grown nails and infected pads from the nail growing into the pad and all I have to say is this. If you trim them and keep them short you will never have that problem. So if you are wanting to keep them then you better start getting the puppy use to them being trimmed now so you aren't wrestling a 100 lb dog later on in life over dew claws. I personally would have kept Missy's dew claw, but then again I trim her nails ever other week and file them down. It would have just been one more nail for me to paint when I am bored.

As for the dog food. I fed Missy puppy food for two months and that was it. I moved her onto a good adult food after the first two months. She was growing so fast that I didn't want do any damage to her by keeping her on a food that was promoting the faster growing. I don't feed Science Diet period, I don't like what is in it as far as the ingredients go. I do feed a mixture of Blue Buffalo Basics and Authority lamb and rice to both of my dogs. They both have beautiful coats and hardly ever shed.

[vin63]

If you are not able to stay on top of trimming, etc., of the nails, then having the dew claws removed is not such a bad thing - they can grow fast.

I do not feed puppy food to large or giant breeds. I generally stick with a premium adult maintenance kibble.

[Rahlcepx516]

Thank you for the advice everyone. You do not know how much you have helped me =)

[Topper]

Our vet asked us if we want Topper remove when we got him fix. Our vet told us the only reason he asks, is he had seen some get tore off. I told him no and that was the end of it.

Now when I got my Harry the people never took care of the dew claw and they were in grown into the pad. Once they get that curl to the pad you have to watch very close and clip all the time.

But I would never remove them and Harry is 8 years old.

[hosselliott]

My vet did not want to remove the second set on each rear leg,on my male Pookie, but they were hanging by a 1 in vein and I live in the country and my dog run is 1/4 acre in bush , I know they would get caught and if it makes Pookie less ofr a pyr , who cares a live Pookie is best in my books.