Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11
  1. #1
    Puppy (New Member)

    Current Great Pyrenees Owner

    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Texas, USA
    Posts
    3
      NewToPyrLife`s Photos

    Default Husband doesn’t want dog anymore

    Hello all! So my husband and I adopted a 6 month old Pyr 9 months ago and her training wasn’t easy to do alone so we went to a training company called Sit Means Sit. After that she was very obedient, behaves well, and was house broken. But 5 months ago we moved and since then she has had problems with submissive urination. We went to the vet and ruled out all health issues so we know for sure it’s just a behavior thing. But I have tried all kinds of training techniques to help but it just gets worse and worse. She urinates when she gets scared...she is a very fearful and timid dog so any changes to her environment, loud noises, or sudden movements scare her. I am at a lost with what to do...my husband refuses to pay for another trainer, and he also refuses to train her, so I have to do everything by myself. He says that if “you don’t fix her, I’m getting rid of her.” I have noticed that she usually only does it when she’s around my husband...when it’s just me and her at home she won’t do it.
    So I am desperate for help!! Please any and all advice! Lilly is our only dog and I love her dearly!

  2. #2
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) nick's spirit's Avatar

    Current Great Pyrenees Owner

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Walla Walla Washington
    Posts
    4,546

    Default

    NewToPyrLife.....this is a difficult situation...very stressful for all of you...

    did you know anything about LGD's before you got your girl?
    what kind of training method did this company use on her?...was it reward based?

    I take it the current issue is her urination....
    no aggression

    the only way I know how to try to stop submissive/fear based urination....is to try not to put the dog in that situation....also, if she does it when you come home, don't make a big deal about being home...calmly call her outside to the proper place to eliminate....then praise her like she just won the lottery....happy & special treats....basically going back to puppy hood again.

    the other thing, you could talk with your vet about is a calming drug so that she is not too sensitive....

    last resort....rehome her....I know it's hard, but it might be the best for all of you in the long run...
    if all concerned are not on the same program to help her be the best girl she can be....it's a struggle for all...

    please let us know how things go

    Nancy & Rudy

  3. #3
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) SebastiansMom's Avatar

    Current Great Pyrenees Owner

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    2,434

    Default

    By any chance, did the people at Sit Means Sit put a shock collar on your puppy like they did the dogs in some of their videos? That could definitely explain the submissive urination and anxiety.

    From the sounds of it, Lilly doesn’t need another trainer, she needs the help of a true behavior expert to undo the damage that the trainers at Sit Means Sit did. If you can get your husband to agree, I am in Dallas and can give you two excellent referrals to behavior experts with whom I have worked to treat my dogs’ behavioral issues. One is a veterinarian who specializes in behavior cases, the other is a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist, with a PhD in behavior. I am willing to bet that each of the women I have worked with charge far less than you paid the snake oil salesmen at Sit means Sit. PM me of you want their contact info.

    In the meantime, it is imperative that your husband understands that the methods that the trainers used on Lilly are decades outdated, and particularly harmful to sensitive breeds such as the Great Pyrenees. Both of the above mentioned behavior experts I have worked with spend a depressing amount of their practice undoing the damage done by aversive, “dominance”-based techniques touted by “trainers” who have no formal training themselves, and if I can be blunt, no business whatsoever working with animals. Mind you, you are not at fault. You had no idea.

    There are three books I recommend you read. The first one is “How to Behave So Your Dog Behaves” by Dr. Sophia Yin. This one is kind of with an asterisk. I’ve found that Sebastian, my Pyr mix, needs more positive reinforcement than Dr. Yin would have recommended. He is now 7, and I still use treats to reinforce certain behaviors in high-distraction circumstances. Dr. yin probably would have called that a bribe. I call it knowing my dog.
    The next two books are both by Dr. Patricia McConnell. The first one, “The Other End of the Leash” is about improving communication between human and dog. The second, “For the Love of a Dog”, is about the rich emotional lives our dogs lead, and is wonderful at explaining body language. Dr. McConnell also has a resource-rich website at patriciamcconnell.com

    Let me know if you want the name of the vet or the CAAB.
    Sebastian is on Facebook!
    www.facebook.com/SirSaintSebastian

  4. #4
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Jewel's Avatar

    Current Great Pyrenees Owner

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    4,958
      Jewel`s Photos

    Default

    We had a pyr mix who was insecure and shy by nature. He was not to the point of being timid, but he was predisposed to become a fear biter if not managed appropriately. I dealt with his issues with a lot of positive reinforcement, desensitization work and confidence building. Rigid or strict forced behavior would not have worked on him. The issue was not he wasn't obeying commands - indeed, obeying commands wasn't all that hard for him. The real issue was he didn't know how to emotionally deal with social situations appropriately. I would venture to guess your girl has similar issues.

    I will be honest. If the dog is resorting to submissive tingling when your husband is around but not when she's just with you, then it sure sounds like your husband is a big contributor to the problem. That being the case, you are not going to make real progress if he denies he's a big part of the problem and refuses to cooperate.

    When you said you've tried training techniques, can you shed some light on what those techniques are? A timid/submissive dog sometimes will not benefit from obedience type training. What they need is reassurance and building confidence from behavior modification methods. This is why it would help if you let us know what you've tried so that we can rule out those training methods are also contributing to the problem.

  5. #5
    Puppy (New Member)

    Current Great Pyrenees Owner

    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Texas, USA
    Posts
    3
      NewToPyrLife`s Photos

    Default

    My husband and I adopted Lilly from a rescue. She was owner surrendered around 5 months old, adopted two weeks later, then that owner surrendered her after two weeks (the 2nd owner developed health problems after adopting), and then finally two weeks after the second surrender we adopted her. Lilly is like the sweetest, kindest, most chill dog..she’s just low confidence (which is something Sit Means Sit trainers also told us.)

    Lilly is not aggressive at all, she’s just suffering from submissive urination...but it is only when she barks. Barks at someone knocking on the door- she pees. Barking at a new chair or lamp- she pees. My husband walks into the room while she’s a sleep, it scares her awake - she barks and pees.

    So we used “Sit Means Sit” because my husband had a friend who recommended them, he had great success with his dog. They trained her with an “E-collar” that’s similar to a shock collar but instead of an electric shock, it gives a small pulse that causes a muscle twitch. (In part of the training I had it used on me so I know it doesn’t necessarily hurt, it’s just a really strange sensation.)

    The submissive urination became more often and definitely a bigger problem after we moved from College Station to Beaumont. I read that training her in the new environment will help get her used to it so I tried that every day for several weeks but it hasn’t helped. We also have one dog park and a walking trail nearby so I’ve been socializing her with new dogs and people once a week. The dog park has “trick obstacles” like a short tunnel, hoops, and a bar to jump over. Every time we go to the park I try to get her to do at least one to get her over the fear of new things and boost her confidence...at this point she will do the bar jump and the tunnel but learning how to do it doesn’t seem to have boosted her confidence any.

    I am not sure what the next step should be. I was really hoping to fix this without having to go to another trainer- if possible. So books and tips are welcome

  6. #6
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) SebastiansMom's Avatar

    Current Great Pyrenees Owner

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    2,434

    Default

    I didn’t realize that there was more than one Sit Means Sit franchise until after my last post.

    Any collar that sends electrical impulses into an animal’s body is a shock collar, regardless of what these trainers told you. They put a shock collar on your dog, and she is now paying the price for it. Again, you don’t need another trainer, because you can’t train fear and insecurity out of a dog - you treat it.

    Your next step really should be to change your approach in communicating with her. Ditch the shock collar - seriously - and start a fresh approach. The key to boosting her confidence is to earn her trust. Pyrs are not a breed that trusts humans blindly the way a Retriever or Collie might. We earn their trust with calm and consistent behavior, as well as benevolent leadership (a totally different concept from Alpha, a theory to which Pyrs don’t subscribe). To establish yourself as a benevolent leader, try engaging her with the Nothing In Life is Free Protocol (NILIF). It is also referred to as Say Please, and in Dr. Yin’s books, Learn to Earn. Start using a reward-based method of positive reinforcement to get her to associate interacting with you with other things she loves, like high-value treats. Reward-based methods aren’t popular just because they're more kind, they’re popular because they produce happier dogs and more consistent long-term results. The aversive methods, such as the shock collar those trainers put on your puppy, may have near-miraculous short-term results, but those results are far too often at the expense of the dog’s long-term emotional health.

    Moving can definitely contribute to fear and insecurity issues. Chester, my non-Pyr has always had Separation Anxiety (among other anxiety issues), which worsened dramatically when we moved to our current home. At one point, our regular vet sat me down for the dreaded “Quality of Life” discussion. With Chester, it took a combination of anti-anxiety medications, behavior modification therapy, patience, and time. He is absolutely thriving now.

    Sebastian has reactivity issues with certain dogs. There are several who walk in the greenway behind our yard, that Sebastian absolutely despises. He has tried to break down the fence gate in our yard several times to get to the dogs walking on the other side. Remember what I said about Dr. Yin and I disagreeing about rewards? This is one of those times. When I see that Sebastian is becoming agitated in the yard, I call him inside and give him a SUPER high-value treat - a greenie, or Trader Joe’s beef roll treat (he’s crazy about those) or doggie ice cream, or something else that he really really really loves. Yes, that would make most trainers scream, but most trainers have never lived with a dog whose ancestors were bred for thousands (yes, thousands) of years to think for themselves and make decisions without the input (or interference) of the humans who serve them. These dogs were not bred to sit just because we say so. We have to find ways to make it worth their while.

    Again, please read the Dr. Yin and Patricia McConnell books I recommended.
    Sebastian is on Facebook!
    www.facebook.com/SirSaintSebastian

  7. #7
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) SebastiansMom's Avatar

    Current Great Pyrenees Owner

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    2,434

    Default

    I just had another thought. Has she been corrected for barking? That may be what is causing the urination.

    When Sebastian barks, which is a lot, depending on his body language, I will either go to the window to assure him that he is barking at ghosts and thank him for keeping us safe , or I will redirect him. I keep cookie jars strategically placed around the house, and I will get two cookies out, ask the dogs what Mommy has, then have them come to me and sit politely for a cookie. I had an idiot trainer yell at me for doing that, once, because he thought I was encouraging Sebastian to bark (like he needs encouragement for that). Enough time elapses between the barking and the reward that the reward is associated with sitting politely, and not the barking beforehand. Patricia McConnell talks about redirecting in her books. She has had Pyrs before.

    I use redirecting as a substitute for correcting with my two.
    Sebastian is on Facebook!
    www.facebook.com/SirSaintSebastian

  8. #8
    Puppy (New Member)

    Current Great Pyrenees Owner

    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Texas, USA
    Posts
    3
      NewToPyrLife`s Photos

    Thumbs up

    Ok thanks so much!! That is some really great advice! I am going to google those books tomorrow and start your advice right away

  9. #9
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) SebastiansMom's Avatar

    Current Great Pyrenees Owner

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    2,434

    Default

    Sending much love and good energy to you and Lilly! Remember, this is likely to be more of a marathon than a sprint, but for me, Chester’s breakthrough moments were more rewarding than I ever could have imagined.

    If you have iOS devices, all three of the books are available on iBooks.
    Sebastian is on Facebook!
    www.facebook.com/SirSaintSebastian

  10. #10
    Old Dawg (Senior Member)

    Current Great Pyrenees Owner

    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Fort Worth
    Posts
    70

    Default

    Yeah, it kind of sounds to me like she's barking because she feels she NEEDS to bark, then peeing because she's afraid of the e-collar response. Does she pee when scolded or when someone is standing over her, or only when she barks?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •