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  1. #11
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Shaggys Mom's Avatar

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    My nephew's pit, Kena seems as sweet as any golden or Pyr or setter I have ever had. I would go into my brother's "man cave" in his recess in his garage as my other two brothers would come over andthey would sit out there to talk and I would be there to talk with them. Kevin would have Kena out there and she wanted ear scratches, tummy rubs, etc from me, tail always wagging. Sir Moose would be inside withier adopted mix, Macy (about 50 pounds) and their daughter's 13" beagle. No trouble at all with them. BUT if Kean was in and came towards me, Sir Moose would position himself between me and Kean and watcher so closely. He didn't mind at all if Macy or Piper were on the sofa with me or Piper was in my lap, but he didn't want the pit bull Kena near me. He never threatened her, just stayed between us, watching us. I couldn't help but wonder if he sensed something nobody else did. I do not think he would have let Kena come up to me the way he let Piper and Macy come up to me.

    I was in to se my primary doctor 2 weeks ago for my 3 month check (diabetes, so checked every 3 months) and was telling him about what happened and the nerve damage in my right hand. He is a dog lover and has FIVE dogs. He said once a dog attacks a person or another dog for no reason, it should be put down. All of his are adopted and he said he was against putting dogs to sleep just becaue of their breed, but he has seen so much damage from pit bites that he thinks every single one should be spayed and neutered and just let the breed die out on it's own. The orthopedic surgeon whose brother owns a Pyr, said he has no use for pits, he has seen such bad damage to hands and arms from pit bites. That is two different doctors that has basically said the same thing. Also, the EMs guys that came out when that lady called 9--11 and reported me & Jewel being attacked said they ahd no use for Pits. I guess either you love them or you don't like them at all. One lady on my golden retriever forum who is a dog trainer said she would never own one, never trust it. One day she was working with one and it was standing there, tail wagging, she was scratching it's neck as she had dozens of times, and it just turned out of the blue and latched onto her hand.
    Jerry and Moose

  2. #12
    Young Dawg (Member) Dixie_love's Avatar

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    I totally agree - if people stop breeding them, the breed would die off on its own (though I read Pitts are not even considered an actual breed). But they seem to be too popular or people won't breed them so much. That's all you see in pet ads, at least here in TX.
    When my kids were younger, I wouldn't let them go to a house of friends who had Pitts for pets. I just won't take the chance. I feel compassion toward abused and rehomed pitt bulls, as I would with any animal, but I won't take any chances on being around one willfully.

  3. #13
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) SebastiansMom's Avatar

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    One night last Summer, I had to take Sebastian to the emergency vet. Because of Chester’s ongoing issues with Separation Anxiety and Isolation Distress, Chester came along, too.

    When the vet on duty came into the exam room, he took one look at Chester, and decided that Chester was absolutely, positively, 100% a pit bull. The funny thing is that I had just received Chester’s Wisdom Panel DNA Test Results, which said that Chester was his own special blend of Lab, Pointer, White Swiss Shepherd, Pomeranian, Pekingese, and mutt. Still, the vet on duty persisted to insist that Chester was a pit bull.
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    The thing is, it’s really difficult for most people to determine a dog’s breed or breed mix on sight alone. Breeds commonly mistaken for pit bulls include, but are by no means limited to, the Cane Corso, Presa Canario, Dogo Argentino, Dogue du Bordeaux, Boxer, Bullmastiff, I could really be here all night rattling off breed names. People tend to see a short-haired, muscular dog with a blocky head, and naturally assume that it is a pit bull, especially if it is behaving badly.

    Look, I totally get why Shaggy’s Mom is scared of pit bulls after what she went through, and by no means do I think that it’s wrong to dislike certain breeds or breed types. I personally cringe every time I see a Sheltie. However, I would like to point out that any and every breed of dog is capable of aggressive and violent behavior. Think you’re in the clear because you have a Pyr? Take a gander at the behavior section of this forum. Some of the stories in there haunt me to this day.

    It is also worth pointing out that within the pit bull breed group, some breed lines tend to produce dogs with more “aggressive” behaviors, while others produce dogs that are more docile. The vast majority of dogs belonging to the pit bull breed group are fantastic, sweet dogs, who live their entire lives without hurting anyone. The ones who end up getting all of the attention? Absolutely, genetics play a likely role in contributing to their unwanted behaviors, but so do other factors, like training, socialization, and the socioeconomics of the humans with whom the dogs live, as well as the surrounding neighborhood.

    I can’t say for sure whether or not socioeconomics played a role in what happened to Shaggy’s Mom, but they certainly do here in Dallas. People living in impoverished, high-crime areas often turn to keeping dogs as a way of keeping criminals out of their homes. These people don’t have a ton of money to spend on a thoughtfully bred puppy from parents who were selected for health, temperament, and desirable breed traits. They also don’t have a ton of money to spend on things like spaying or neutering their pets, training and socialization of their pets, behaviorists to help them with behavioral problems, or taking measures to prevent their dogs from escaping the yard. Before I moved to our current home, I lived adjacent to such a neighborhood, which is how I ended up with Chester. Had Chester not come to live with me, he could easily have been one of those “pit bulls” you read about in the news, even though his DNA test says that he’s not a pit bull.
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  4. #14
    Young Dawg (Member) Dixie_love's Avatar

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    I am definitely someone who is afraid of any kind of large loose dog, especially if they are traveling in a pair or a pack. Another thing that makes me so mad is when a neighbour decides to start feeding a stray. The person doesn't assume responsibility for the dog, they don't put them in their fenced back yard while looking for the owners, they just feed the dog in their open front yard. So the dog sticks around and chases after passers by barking at them. One such person was a neighbour friend whom I confronted about it because at the time I had a newborn baby and we liked to walk with a stroller. I told her that once she starts feeding a stray that stray is her dog and her responsibility. I asked her what if that stray was a Pitt because she said she'd feed any kind of stray dog regardless of its breed. She denied taking responsibility for feeding strays. She said she'd feed them, but they were not her dogs. Well, one day that stray turned on her and her dog and had to be put down. But the point is that this kind of behaviour endangers the person doing it and their neighbours who are innocent bystanders.
    Any dog breed can become dangerous, that's why leash laws and loose dog laws should be reinforced everywhere.

  5. #15
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) SebastiansMom's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie_love View Post
    I totally agree - if people stop breeding them, the breed would die off on its own (though I read Pitts are not even considered an actual breed). But they seem to be too popular or people won't breed them so much. That's all you see in pet ads, at least here in TX.
    Um, you do know that the number of homeless Pyrs here in Texas is staggering, right? If not, do a quick search, and remember, that those are the ones that are lucky enough not to get shot or worse.

    As for Pyrs and kids, well, I certainly wouldn’t leave a Pyr, or any kind of dog, unsupervised around a group of roughhousing kids. That protective nature can be a double-edged sword when the dog mistakes play-fighting kids for kids doing harm to a member of the dog’s family.

    A huge part of responsible dog ownership is knowing what your dog is capable of.
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  6. #16
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) mikelg84's Avatar

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    The few times in my life when I have encountered a pit bull, I have never had a bad experience. I have always felt safe for me a my dog.

    I have only seen one dog showing aggression towards my dog (and myself, I suppose), and that dog was a greyhound.

    I think we have to be very careful when we label dogs as good dogs and bag dogs. Around 3 hours ago, I was walking Pippa and I heard a 3-4 year old boy say: "look, mom! A bad dog". And I politely said: "she is not a bad dog. She is actually very friendly. You can pet her." The mother of the little boy looked at me and didn't say a word, and walked her way. I guess not everybody has to be a dog person....

  7. #17
    Young Dawg (Member) Dixie_love's Avatar

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    It's interesting, we went to a puppy training session this weekend with our Dixie. The trainer loves Pyrs. She mentioned working with a Pitt bull not long ago that grabbed hold of her arm while training and spoke of the power of their jaws when they grab. She has been a trainer for 30 years.
    About Pyrs and their breed quirks. So far, I have only met 2 types of people-those who say: "Omg, I LOVE Great Pyrenees! They are awesome!" And people who say: "I don't know what that is. Can you show me a pic?" I believe from what I've read online, the main reasons Pyrs end up in shelters is because of barking and their size some people find unmanageable. Though there was one person I heard of from my SIL, their neighbour, who got rid of her GP because he killed a chicken, but taking into consideration her beating the dog up for every stupid reason, I am not surprised the dog did what it did. Overal though there is a good reason why GPs are called "gentle giants". But that said, a dog is still a dog.
    I remember my first experience with a GP about 13 years ago. We lived in the country and neighbours had cows. Their field backed up to a church yard and a cemetery, and we often walked there with our dog, who was an Australian Sheppard. So the Pyr that was free to roam would get out of the enclosure with the cows and sit on the road at the cemetary, and at first would bark at us every time we passed by. I was afraid because the dog was huge and it was barking at us, but have to say the beauty of that dog and the intelligence in her eyes attracted me right away. Sometimes I'd walk by myself and started talking to her calmly every time. Eventually she realized I meant no harm and started to come up to me, then to my family members and our dog. She'd put her huge paws on my knee and enjoy a hug. That's when I fell in love with GP for the first time.
    It's true, it's extremely important to know your individual dog and to know the breed's quirks. The problem with Pitt bulls is that they are more unpredictable. Many of the attacks that happened were from seemingly good family pets. Another thing, and this may not be a kind statement, but nevertheless, Pitts were not bred for intelligence, this is not one of the top traits in a Pittbull Terrier. And another thing is that when they do attack, they mean to kill, it's extremely difficult to force them away from their victim.
    As far as kids go, I have to say I cringe every time I see a YT video of a baby or a toddler next to any animal, be it dog, cat, bird, etc. I wouldn't trust any animal with a child unsupervised, all it takes is an instant for something bad to happen. I am also of firm conviction that all large breed dogs need some formal training, it's an injstice to a dog not to be trained. Wow, I've seen German Sheppards/Siberian Huskies running on a leash dragging their owner behind. And one friend with a German Sheppard wouldn't even let anyone into their house because her dog is so untrained and badly behaved. But when it comes to Pitts, even if I liked the look (I don't), I wouldn't trust them and couldn't take that chance. And some breeds when they are loose are scarier to encounter than some others. Like, I'd be afraid to run into a loose Pitt, German Shep, Doberman, Rottweiler, etc. But would feel less scared if there was a loose Collie, Golden Retriever, or Great Pyr.

  8. #18
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Jewel's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikelg84 View Post
    I think we have to be very careful when we label dogs as good dogs and bag dogs.
    I totally agree with that. The fact is those two dogs that attacked Sandra and Princess J. have been put down. They are dead; they can never hurt anyone else. It seems to me a teeny bit excessive to continue on and repeatedly attribute blame to the entire breed and condemn every individual of the breed as inherently bad.

    Indeed, it isn't true that all pyrs are "gentle giants." I carry scars to back that up. This pyr lived with us for 3 months and I spent an enormous amount of time and pounds of treats working with him to help him become a member of our family. He got me twice, both times drawing blood and significant colorful bruising. I didn't give up on him when he bit me. But I finally gave up, and I regret to this day that I didn't give him up sooner, when he did this to my gentle old guy, Bro:

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    What you can't see on that pic was Bro was also missing a small slice of his right ear. Bro was 11 yrs old and gentle and had cancer and he was much smaller than the pyr. He was no threat and never threatened the other pyr. The attack in the picture was the 6th time the pyr attacked Bro. That dog was returned to the rescue the next morning. Bro did not deserve to live out his last days in fear. I will carry that guilt until the end of my days.

    I do not, and should not, attribute that pyr's actions to the breed as a whole.

    My current 2 yo pure pyr Ren is very sweet and has been extremely extensively socialized. He gets along with dogs of all sizes and has never picked a fight in his life. Not counting bad mannered ankle biters, He has been attacked twice that I can clearly recall. One dog was a nut job border collie that escaped from owner's backyard and I learned has a history of attacking other dogs. The other was a beautiful golden retriever. The first time we met the golden, it got reactive after a few seconds. The third time we ran into that golden, that dog went straight for Ren's throat with Cujo level aggression - I am not a novice owner, so I know real aggression when I see it. Couple of weekends ago we visited Austin. One morning I was at the hotel lobby getting coffee, there was a lady with two very cute Frenchies on leash at the coffee station. I said hi to the dogs and one of them went for my face. I was pretty irritated with the lady for bringing an aggressive dog in a public space in close quarters with lots of humans. None of these breeds are considered "aggressive" breeds, but clearly individual dogs can be very aggressive.

  9. #19
    Young Dawg (Member) Dixie_love's Avatar

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    Sadly, I've never had a good experience with rescues, whether it's cats or dogs. Most cats we adopted from rescues had litterbox issues and dogs behavioral or health issues. The problem is that you don't know the full history of the animal, only what the rescue tells you.

    Individual dogs are important of course, but you still can't dismiss the breed. The reason why some breeds, Pitbulls in particular, are labeled as a dangerous breed is because of statistics - there's overwhelmingly more cases of serious injury or death involving an attack by a Pitbull than any other type dog, and in most cases these attacks happen with zero provocation. Statistics and the stories in the news are good enough for me not to be a fan of these dogs.

  10. #20
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Shaggys Mom's Avatar

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    r last 5and 2 golden retrievers and we lucked out with every one of them as to being great dogs. Honey, the first golden was between 1 1/2 and 2 and heart worm positive. We paid for her treatment and had 12 great yeas with her. She even loved our vet and got all excited to see him!. We did only have Shaggy 3 1/2 weeks before hemangiosarcoma took him, but he was so gentle and loved everyone and loved attention--and he had been abused his first 6 years. Sir Moose, nothing bothered him at all...except birds of prey flying overhead. He even came on first call---unless he had something treed in fire bushes (12 feet tall) or down in wood pile, usually a possum. And Sophie the next golden was 11 when we adopted her and her 20 months. Like a typical golden, she thought everyone that came here came to see her. And now Jewel. She also thinks everyone that comes to the house comes to see her. So all our adoptions have worked out great for us.

    We adopted all her Pyrs from the Texas Great Pyrenees Rescue and they are always begging for fosters. I think it was Dixie mentioned that so many are turned in for barking. On the TGPR forum, plus two others I am on FB many are asking for hep becaue neighbors are complaining about their Pry barking at night...even in the houses. Also it seems many are turned in becaue they were intended to be guarding flocks of chickens, etc and would prefer to be with humans, so are not doing their jog. So they are turned into shelters or dumped and new dogs are brought in. And many are picked up on highways, etc and it is assumed they roamed and without chips or tags, hard to find who they belong to. Often copies of FOUND notices with pictures are posted as well as LOST notices with picture. And believe it or not, golden retriever rescues are over full as well. Man times it is senior goldens. I donated to the one golden rescue in Austin and got news lettes. One story broke my heart. A father & son were turned in---ages 13 and 15. The family didn't want two keep two old dogs that slept most of the time, wanted playful pups so dumped the old dogs. I would give anything to have had all my dogs live to those ages, and here those people had it and threw the dogs away. So sad.

    I HAD a friend who went thru dogs like a child thru a bag of cookies. If they did something wrong--he took them and dumped them in the country. I fussed at him, told him it was wrong, and finally he got a beautiful pointer pup and when it chewed on insulation under their trailer, he took it and dumped it. Need I say I had nothing more to do with him. My husband was a cross country trucker for 42 years and he said he would be miles from any town and now see any houses or anything for miles and miles--but see a dog or pair of dogs walking along the die of the road...or dead in the road. He knew they had been dumped. I can't understand people who do things like this.

    By the way, the first pit that went after me is still chained out front of that house. He can't be put in the back yard because he fights with his mother and sibling that are back there. And being on that chain 24/7 is no way to live. And I am scarred to be out in the front yard for fearf he will get off again and be around where I dont' see him til he comes after me. Maye that is crazy but I can't help it.
    Jerry and Moose

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