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  1. #1
    Puppy (New Member)

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    Default Pit Attack on my Pyr Puppies

    This is my first post, and I wish it was for a very positive reason.

    I have a pair of Pyrenees/Akbash blend pups who are not about 16 months old and 107lbs apiece (uncut-male and fixed female, siblings). I live on a property which has an easement to pass my front neighbor to the county road, a lane along her 2 acres. This is the only way in/out my property.

    When they are about 11 months old, I'm walking my two Pyrenees on leashes to the County road and must pass my neighbor's gate which is ajar. As soon as I get near it, here comes her "American Bulldog".

    He immediately lunges at my male and bowls him over. The male draws back and whimpers loudly as he's never encountered an aggressive dog before.

    The neighbor naturally and ineffectively yells at her dog and can't call him off while I'm trying to untangle the leashes and not get bit myself while kicking her dog. She eventually pulls her dog off and my male is of course not physically harmed because of his huge mane. Apologies, and other conversation happens. She started closing her gate, but too often, it is wide open as it's too much a nuisance to get out of her car and close it apparently.

    We can't walk our dogs down the lane to the County Road because of her repeated failure to close the gate. The County is not very concerned about dog on dog attacks and only pay attention to dog on humans.. and then only at strike 2 or 3.

    My neighbor is living a life where she is overwhelmed. She has a sick daughter and is a single mother so I understand her need for security, but unfortunately, she has picked the wrong breed for guarding her property. Her dog will get out again for sure and I'm counting on our dogs or one of us getting bit or worse.. it's negligent to believe otherwise. I don't own a gun, but feel like I need to just to walk past this property.. it's the only effective way of stopping these Kanine "Alligators".

    I feel trapped on my own property.

    I have built a new fence between our properties as it was rotten and just a matter of time for either of the dogs to discover they can crawl through the bramble and get to the other side.

    My male and female are filling out. Daily they spend hours jousting and sprinting. Unbelievable acrobatics for animals which are so heavy and muscular. Chewing bones strengthening their jaws. It's all play fighting, but clearly nature intended that they "rehearse" for the real thing and keep a very high level of fitness in doing so. They have nearly an acre to play in, and I hope to have the fences fixed on all three acres at one point so they have the whole domain to guard and run.

    The female is short-haired, like her 1/2 Akbash mother, but is getting huge. Despite all these attributes, and knowing their heritage, I still feel like they would come out on the short end in damage if the neighbors Pit ever got ahold of them.

    This post is mainly venting, and for that reason I apologize.

  2. #2
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) nick's spirit's Avatar

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    welcome Brian...and pups....
    so sorry to read this situation...a couple of thoughts
    can your neighbor pay for a more secure fence & maybe you & a couple of friends could help put it up?
    can us use pepper spray? (make sure you know which way the wind is blowing!)

    my uneducated guess about your two filling out & becoming mature...they are not going to take this attacking much longer, and I don't think they will end up on the "short end"...however, yes, if you or one of your family members gets in between...you are probably correct that you or they will get injured...then you really have a problem. Because as you said the County only cares about dog to human encounters

    You seem to be a very understanding & reasonable person...I think I would put it to your neighbor in this way...let her know that your dogs will one day not take this attacking any more & you don't want to see her dog injured, or worse...killed...because your full grown mature dogs can & quite possibly will do exactly that

    it's okay to rant here....it's a good place to air out the bad vibes & maybe get some feedback as well!

    let us know how things go

    Nancy & Rudy

  3. #3
    Puppy (New Member)

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    Quote Originally Posted by nick's spirit View Post
    welcome Brian...and pups....
    so sorry to read this situation...a couple of thoughts
    can your neighbor pay for a more secure fence & maybe you & a couple of friends could help put it up?

    Nancy & Rudy
    Hi Nancy & Rudy,

    I was thinking something along the lines of what you are saying.

    It's keeping the gate closed that is the problem. Maybe I can help her fund it by killing two birds with one stone. The wrecked cars on her property have scrap value which could pay for the gate closer....

    just thinkin'...

  4. #4
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) nick's spirit's Avatar

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    good thought...wonder what the scrap value would add up to for her!

    maybe an automatic gate would be better than a new/sturdier fence!

    take a look on a local Craigslist...never know what you might find!

  5. #5
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) SebastiansMom's Avatar

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    I understand your frustration and can sympathize with your situation, as my two have been accosted by off-leash dogs more than once. I think that helping your neighbor install a self-closing gate is a great idea. If that is cost prohibitive, perhaps there is a way to fence in a secure area on her property where the dog can have outdoor access.

    It is important to know that the dog is not at fault, here. He is simply doing what dogs do when they think that there is someone in their territory that doesn’t belong. He doesn’t understand the concept of having an easement.

    This also has nothing to do with breed. Technically, while they are considered a “bully breed”, American Bulldogs don’t belong to the pit bull family of breeds. Either way, the fact that this dog is a bully breed, has no bearing on his behavior towards your dogs. I have to be extra careful at my house because given the opportunity, my Sebastian would go after a perceived “terspassing” dog the way that American Bulldog went after your two. On several occasions, now, he has tried to break down my back fence gate trying to get to an arch-enemy rival dog who likes to walk too close to our fence. He only gets to hang out in the back yard during times that I can be in an adjacent room of the house to supervise him. For what it’s worth, the two most problematic dogs I have ever met in terms of dog aggressive behavior were a standard poodle and a French bulldog.

    In addition to the perceived “trespassing”, the American Bulldog could be having such a strong reaction to your dogs because your male is intact. Intact male dogs have a different scent than neutered males or females. If the American Bulldog is himself intact, or hasn’t had much exposure to intact males, he could be acting aggressively out of a sense of competition (if he’s intact), or because he is afraid of your boy’s unfamiliar scent (neutered). My two boys are both neutered, and have ZERO tolerance for intact males. None, at all.

    Pepper spray is a good thing to carry, or if you don’t like the idea of pepper spraying someone’s dog, PetSafe makes a citronella spray called “Spray Shield”. You can also carry high value treats with you, and throw them at the dog to try to distract him while he is approaching. If you happen to have a bag of poop in your hand, you can try throwing that at the dog, too, as often the dog will be distracted by wanting to sniff the poop for information.

    Should a future attack occur, if there is a water hose nearby, you can try spraying the dog with water. I keep a water bottle strategically placed next to the door to the back yard, and use it to get Sebastian’s attention when he loses control. It works when nothing else has.

    I do hope that you get this situation resolved, soon.
    Sebastian is on Facebook!
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  6. #6
    Puppy (New Member)

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    Quote Originally Posted by SebastiansMom View Post

    This also has nothing to do with breed.


    I'm afraid my personal evidence proves your idea to be incorrect.


    I owned a Great Pyr. in the 90's and the ONLY time he was attached (he was fixed) was by TWO pits.

    Again, his fur saved him.

    My dog was simply present and the pits were unleashed.

    Please stop spreading false information and endangering people and other dogs.

  7. #7
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) SebastiansMom's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianM View Post
    I'm afraid my personal evidence proves your idea to be incorrect.


    I owned a Great Pyr. in the 90's and the ONLY time he was attached (he was fixed) was by TWO pits.

    Again, his fur saved him.

    My dog was simply present and the pits were unleashed.

    Please stop spreading false information and endangering people and other dogs.
    I’m afraid your personal evidence proves nothing. For one, your neighbor’s “Kanine (sic) Alligator” isn’t a Pit Bull, he’s an American Bulldog, from what you say. The Pit Bull type dog is restricted to three breeds - the American Pit Bull Terrier, the American Staffordshire Terrier, and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Note that each of these breeds is completely distinct from the American Bulldog, like, they’re completely separate breeds.

    When Sebastian was four months old, he was attacked by a 150 lb. Saint Bernard. That doesn’t mean that every Saint alive is a snarling, puppy-attacking beast. When he was about 14 months old, he was alpha-rolled by a Doberman at a dog park. Again, the majority of the Dobermans I have met are actually pretty well-behaved. Chester, my lab mix, has been attacked by a Husky/GSD mix, a French Bulldog, and a Golden Retriever. You do the math.

    Each of my boys sees a vet who specializes in behavior issues. During one of our appointments, she revealed to me that a disproportionate percentage of her clientele is comprised of Goldendoodles - you know, the dogs who are crosses between Golden Retrievers and Standard Poodles - such vicious beasts. I have personally been bitten by a Sheltie.

    Neither of our personal experiences proves anything about any particular breed. If that were the case, there wouldn’t be a “safe” breed on the planet.

    Ask any reputable, credentialed behavior specialist. All breeds of dogs bite. Any breed of dog can become dangerously aggressive. Any breed of dog can potentially kill - just ask the family of this poor woman:

    https://kfor.com/2018/05/17/oklahoma...ed-dachshunds/

    For the record, I am not endangering anyone. I am fully aware of what my two dogs are capable of, despite the fact that, according to their DNA test results, neither of them is a pit bull, or any type of bully breed. Sebastian is 50% Saint Bernard, 37.5% Great Pyrenees, and 12.5% Shar Pei. Chester is 12.5% Lab, 12.5% Pointer, 12.5% White Swiss Shepherd, 12.5% Pomeranian, 12.5% Pekingese, and the rest undetermined mutt. My dogs don’t run around loose. When we go to the vet, I call the office from the car when we get there, and have them send someone out to bring us in through the side entrance when our exam room is ready. Not only do we see the vet who specializes in behavior, but we also have an established relationship with a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist - a woman whose certification process BEGAN when she earned her PhD in Experimental Phycology with an emphasis in Animal Behavior. From there, she went through a lengthy and demanding process to earn her certification. She knows that any breed of dog can exhibit aggressive behavior because she has treated dogs of a wide variety of breeds for aggressive behavior.

    Wanna see what Pyrs are capable of? Take a stroll through the behavior section of this forum. There are some pretty heartbreaking threads here, some of which have kept me up at night. I can think of three threads off the top of my head where members of this forum have had to make the gut-wrenching choice to euthanize their Pyrs due to aggressive behavior.

    Every dog - whether an APBT, an American Bulldog, a Saint Bernard, a Newfoundland, a Dacshund, a Jack Russell Terrier, a French Bulldog, a Yorkie, a Chihuahua, or any other breed (orcombination thereof) needs to be owned responsibly. I’m sorry that your neighbor isn’t taking that responsibility seriously, for if she were, we wouldn’t need to have this ridiculous conversation on a forum for people who love dogs (and not just the livestock guardian kind).

    You’re certainly entitled to dislike American Bulldogs, Pit Bull Breeds, and the rest of the Bully Breeds (although in fairness, I hope you will include both English and French Bulldogs, as they, too, are considered to be Bully Breeds). After my experience with the Sheltie who bit me, I cringe every time I see one. However, just because you don’t like them doesn’t mean that there is any Scientific evidence to prove that breed alone makes them all bad. In fact, the Scientific Evidence we have to date points in the other direction.

    With all due respect, I’m not the one spreading false information.
    Sebastian is on Facebook!
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  8. #8
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) mikelg84's Avatar

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    What SM said x1000.

    The fact that, it's 2018, and people still like to categorize breeds based on dangerous and not dangerous and expect those breeds to behave the way society thinks they should...
    It's like saying that certain human races are more likely to commit crimes than others. As far as I know, researchers have identified ZERO genes linked to aggressiveness in humans or dogs. However, environmental factors (in humans) have been shown to play an important role in such behaviors. And we're not that different from dogs.

    In September of 2017, while on vacation, I saw a woman walking a Yorkie Terrier. Based on how long the leash was and the way the dog was acting, I assumed the risk of me being bitten by the dog was minimal. When I tried to pet the animal, correct, I got bitten. Totally my fault.

  9. #9
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Jewel's Avatar

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    Brian, sorry for your bad attack experiences. You have every right to be frustrated with your neighbor and you most certainly can vent about that here. I would be very upset as well if my 4-legged kid is at risk of being attacked due to neighbor's irresponsible pet ownership. I hope a suggested cooperative effort will bring about a solution that is good for everyone.

    The posters on these forums have, for the most part, tried not to be judgmental because everyone has his or her set of background and issues. We try to be helpful by sharing issue specific advise / suggestions / ideas.

    I've been posting here for many years and I have read my share of stories of pyrs aggressing at dogs and/or humans. I'd hate for people to base their views on my breed of choice on those stories alone. I've had a couple of friends whose pyrs were attacked by pitbull type dogs. One friend's female was injured (the attacker was put down) while the other friend's male just about killed the attacker without sustaining any injuries. As for me, well, I have a confession to make... on one morning walk a few years back, it was dark, I was down picking up poo, and I dropped my male dog's leash by accident. The next thing I knew, he took off and by the time I caught with him, I had to detach his teeth from a pitbull's head. The poor pitbull was on leash and didn't try to fight back. It was in complete shock that it was attacked... I know why my male reacted that way - because I was down with my back turned as the pit and its mom were walking toward us in the dark. Still, my dog was the aggressor and I was at fault because I dropped the leash. I had my female with me too and she didn't react at all. She ran with me to catch her brother and waited calmly while I detached his teeth from the pitbull. She was actually the more confident and assertive of my two. She had better judgment than he. I'm willing to bet she noticed the pair walking toward us too, but assessed the situation correctly that they were not a threat to us. I had two pyrs with me, and each assessed a situation and acted totally differently... I can also tell you that I carry scars from a pyr that was my adoption failure who was horribly leash aggressive and transferred his aggression on me because he couldn't get at a passing dog. I'd hate for those people who saw him sink his teeth into my thigh to pass judgment that pyrs are all like him.

  10. #10
    Puppy (New Member)

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    Quote Originally Posted by SebastiansMom View Post
    I’m afraid your personal evidence proves nothing. For one, your neighbor’s “Kanine (sic) Alligator” isn’t a Pit Bull, he’s an American Bulldog, from what you say. The Pit Bull type dog is restricted to three breeds - the American Pit Bull Terrier, the American Staffordshire Terrier, and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Note that each of these breeds is completely distinct from the American Bulldog, like, they’re completely separate breeds.

    When Sebastian was four months old, he was attacked by a 150 lb. Saint Bernard. That doesn’t mean that every Saint alive is a snarling, puppy-attacking beast. When he was about 14 months old, he was alpha-rolled by a Doberman at a dog park. Again, the majority of the Dobermans I have met are actually pretty well-behaved. Chester, my lab mix, has been attacked by a Husky/GSD mix, a French Bulldog, and a Golden Retriever. You do the math.

    Each of my boys sees a vet who specializes in behavior issues. During one of our appointments, she revealed to me that a disproportionate percentage of her clientele is comprised of Goldendoodles - you know, the dogs who are crosses between Golden Retrievers and Standard Poodles - such vicious beasts. I have personally been bitten by a Sheltie.

    Neither of our personal experiences proves anything about any particular breed. If that were the case, there wouldn’t be a “safe” breed on the planet.

    Ask any reputable, credentialed behavior specialist. All breeds of dogs bite. Any breed of dog can become dangerously aggressive. Any breed of dog can potentially kill - just ask the family of this poor woman:

    https://kfor.com/2018/05/17/oklahoma...ed-dachshunds/

    For the record, I am not endangering anyone. I am fully aware of what my two dogs are capable of, despite the fact that, according to their DNA test results, neither of them is a pit bull, or any type of bully breed. Sebastian is 50% Saint Bernard, 37.5% Great Pyrenees, and 12.5% Shar Pei. Chester is 12.5% Lab, 12.5% Pointer, 12.5% White Swiss Shepherd, 12.5% Pomeranian, 12.5% Pekingese, and the rest undetermined mutt. My dogs don’t run around loose. When we go to the vet, I call the office from the car when we get there, and have them send someone out to bring us in through the side entrance when our exam room is ready. Not only do we see the vet who specializes in behavior, but we also have an established relationship with a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist - a woman whose certification process BEGAN when she earned her PhD in Experimental Phycology with an emphasis in Animal Behavior. From there, she went through a lengthy and demanding process to earn her certification. She knows that any breed of dog can exhibit aggressive behavior because she has treated dogs of a wide variety of breeds for aggressive behavior.

    Wanna see what Pyrs are capable of? Take a stroll through the behavior section of this forum. There are some pretty heartbreaking threads here, some of which have kept me up at night. I can think of three threads off the top of my head where members of this forum have had to make the gut-wrenching choice to euthanize their Pyrs due to aggressive behavior.

    Every dog - whether an APBT, an American Bulldog, a Saint Bernard, a Newfoundland, a Dacshund, a Jack Russell Terrier, a French Bulldog, a Yorkie, a Chihuahua, or any other breed (orcombination thereof) needs to be owned responsibly. I’m sorry that your neighbor isn’t taking that responsibility seriously, for if she were, we wouldn’t need to have this ridiculous conversation on a forum for people who love dogs (and not just the livestock guardian kind).

    You’re certainly entitled to dislike American Bulldogs, Pit Bull Breeds, and the rest of the Bully Breeds (although in fairness, I hope you will include both English and French Bulldogs, as they, too, are considered to be Bully Breeds). After my experience with the Sheltie who bit me, I cringe every time I see one. However, just because you don’t like them doesn’t mean that there is any Scientific evidence to prove that breed alone makes them all bad. In fact, the Scientific Evidence we have to date points in the other direction.

    With all due respect, I’m not the one spreading false information.
    I have to also agree with you SM!

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