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  1. #1
    Young Dawg (Member)

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    Default New Owner and Problems

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    Last edited by Brayjj; 09-23-2018 at 03:31 PM.

  2. #2
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) nick's spirit's Avatar

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    Brayjj....send him back to his other owner....

    my thought is that he will not adjust to your home...showing his attitude so early says to me that he is a very assertive dog, and will need some special handling...and maybe even be the only dog in the household

    I have had friends in similar situations with a different type of LGD....first one was a male about a year old, said to be gentle & calm, they sent him back to the breeder after he pinned their daughter to the floor with his muzzle on the back of her neck.
    second one, a puppy....grew up to be quite the guardian....wouldn't let anyone in the car or house..including the owners

    I agree, a person goes into bringing a companion to their home for life....but sometimes it just doesn't work out

    please let us know how things go for you & him

  3. #3
    Young Dawg (Member)

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    Last edited by Brayjj; 09-23-2018 at 03:32 PM.

  4. #4
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Jewel's Avatar

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    No knowing what the situation was with his prior home with the other males, but if he grew up with those other males, that may explain why he wasn't aggressive with them. It also doesn't mean that had he remained at that home, that he would not become aggressive toward those males there before long. Generally speaking, it is not uncommon for LGDs to hav same gender aggression. That same gender aggression is usually not present when the dog is a pup but can surface as the LGD enters young adulthood. Also, it isn't uncommon for LGDs to have issues getting along with other large size dogs. Moreover, depending the line of karakachan this dog came from, that breed can have pretty sharp temperament with other dogs. Thus, while it is possible that this new pup can eventually adapt to his new canine brother, there is also the distinct possibility that your home is not the right home for this dog.

    I respect your view that one should be committed for life when bringing a 4 legged family home. But the reality is not every home is a good fit for every dog. A couple of years ago we adopted a 3-legged pyr to be the companion to my old pyr boy after we unexpectedly lost his female companion (also a pyr) to cancer at a relatively young age. I tried very hard to make it work, and I am fairly adapt at working with dogs. It just didn't work. I returned the 3-legged pyr after 3 months. After he tore a gash that required stitches on my old boy's head. That was the 6th time he attacked my old boy. The head of the rescue group sent that dog to one of the regular fosters volunteers. The foster mom called me up and was really condescending, suggesting that I simply did not know how to be the leader of the pack. She ended up having to return that dog to the head of rescue after she could no longer control that dog after a few months.

    Don't know how long you've had this boy. But by your description, I think it would not be the wrong decision to send him back immediately. At his size, even one slip up can be quite serious.

    You can continue to try and introduce them everyday for the next month and see what happens. If things haven't improved a good deal by the end of that period, I would seriously consider return or rehome him.

  5. #5
    Young Dawg (Member)

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    Last edited by Brayjj; 09-23-2018 at 03:32 PM.

  6. #6
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Jewel's Avatar

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    A new dog acclimating and using a quick growl to say, "hey, need a little space here" is normal. It's an entirely different story if the dog is repeatedly lunging with head and shoulders forward, eyes fixated and whites showing and foaming at the mouth. That is pretty serious aggressive posturing. The other thing is if he's reacting simply by hearing the other dog moving around in other parts of the house, that is something not normal either.

    I would suggest that you first try and find out what this new dog considers his "personal space." Take both dogs outside but without them seeing one another. Start by having the dogs kind of far apart and see if the young one reacts. When I say far apart, I mean like 40-50 feet. If the new guy is reacting badly, have take them further apart. and see at which point the new dog stops reacting. You want to know that because if you are trying to work with them you can't start off by the new guy immediately fly into red zone. Once he's in that zone, you are making the work about 100 times harder. Also, each time he gets into that frenzy, you are reinforcing the behavior. If he's fine at 50 ft, then move a little closer until you can tell he's starting to get agitated. Also, I would have your older dog sit with his back to the new one when you start. Sitting down is a sign of peace in dog language. Sitting down with the back to the dog is even less threatening. If your old dog is unwilling to do that, he's telling you clearly that the new one is a threat and you need to pay attention to that as well.

    At the same time you need make sure you are enforcing rules with this pup. He sounds very assertive and you can't have a LGD that is already willing to use aggressive posture (albeit to another dog) to demand things from you and you just let him. I would suggest implement NILIF to get him acclimated to the concept that all the good things come from you and that he has to work for those things. Also, while the pyr paw is a breed trait, I don't think it's something one should just overlook when a dog is showing a lot of assertiveness. When he paws, tell him "that's enough" gently and don't give in to him. If he continues, tell him again with more confidence without anger or frustration. See how far he's willing to push the issue. You might also consider feeding him in the crate. Put his food in the crate and he can make a decision whether he wants to eat or go hungry. I would put his food in the crate and then walk away to let him have the space to feel safe to go in and eat. Don't encourage him to go in because that's usually going to stress the dog out if the dog is already uncomfortable about going in. If he's truly crate trained, he should be wiling to go in the crate to eat long before starving himself.

    A LGD pup that is calm at a year old is not that uncommon. MY first one was perfectly calm when we got her at 10 months. My current 2 yo whom we've had since he was 8 weeks old has always been like that. LGDs are without doubt wired differently than other biddable breeds. They need to be as they are bred to make decisions independently. They do not have the instinct to look to humans for guidance and direction. Instead humans are partners to them, not leaders. You are not wrong to think that a LGD would be a suitable breed for your homestead. But it doesn't mean every LGD is a fit for every LGD situation. Some LGDs are more suited to be working away from humans in open spaces. Others thrive on being all around farm dogs that have close contact with humans. Yet others would prefer to be house pets

  7. #7
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Pjg8r's Avatar

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    I know you want to keep this dog, but you have received comments from very experienced great pyr people so far. How is he at meal times? Have you found a way to safely get him into a crate? Anyone who rehomes a dog and says “no returns” sets up warning flags for me. If you decide to keep him please consider meeting with a behaviorist familiar with live stock guardian dogs.

  8. #8
    Young Dawg (Member)

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  9. #9
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) nick's spirit's Avatar

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    Brayjj.....is everything okay?

  10. #10
    Young Dawg (Member)

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    Quote Originally Posted by nick's spirit View Post
    Brayjj.....is everything okay?
    Thanks for checking in. I got nervous about what I said, in case the previous owner would see. Silly I know. Thank you for asking. Another person from the board emailed me, you are all so kind. I really appreciate that.

    I finally got to talk with the previous owner and was told to rehome the dog if it doesn't work out. If it doesn't work out, I don't think this dog should go to a home with any other dogs, by how he is acting. I really have no idea how I would go about rehoming a dog, if it came to that. Maybe he would do go with an older dog, that really doesn't care, if that makes sense, or wouldn't approach him. It seems like he likes his space, and doesn't like any dogs getting near him.

    He did better today, on the road, walking close to eachother, but then all of a sudden he will just flip out and try to attack. I really don't get it. I know he's in a new location and is upset about things, but this type of behavior shouldn't be happening. My "First" dog is now worked up over the other dog having his mouth on him when he got too close to him, and all he wants to do is be friends and this dog wants nothing to do with being friends. I think it's a combination of being in a new situation and him "owning" us as his.
    When he came into the house downstairs, and my dog accidently went into the downstairs, because he got loose when I was putting him inside (he really just wants to play with the new dog), the pry went into his crate on his own, which he never does and got fierce telling my dog to back away that's his. I think he named the house as his already and sees my dog as a threat, if that makes sense.....
    We are planning on giving it a month, but I'm already feeling a little nervous. It scares me when he gets like that. He's a wonderful dog, I just don't think he's cut out to be in a 2 dog home. It's hard to keep 2 dogs completely apart in a small house. Tonight, my son opened the downstairs door, and my "first" dog started to go downstairs and the pry flipped out, and my dog quickly turned around and came back up. He just wants to be friends so badly...

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