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  1. #1
    Young Dawg (Member)

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    Red face Sudden overnight aggression to pack mates

    Hi
    I am new here. I have actually followed and read but this is my first time posting. I have tried to get info from facebook websites without much luck. I have a 1 year old Pyr, Lonni Fay. Spayed and gastro pexied. She is suddenly and I mean overnight aggressive to her pack mates. A 9 month old male pyr (was her bonded mate)and 5 year old Pointer. Her blood work is clean except her eocinfil numbers are way way too high at 2600 plus. The normal is 0-1400. She has lost 20 pounds in a month. Hard to tell at first because she blew her coat and my husband said no, no, shes fine. You see her everday, but I could just see she lost weight. Vetted her immediately. She is anxious. Weight loss. Not at all herself. Meantime a huge macaw attacked her in yard. Neighbors bird got out again and then he admitted its been getting out for two weeks! It was a hellish fight between the two. I was afraid it would put her eye out. Its beak has never been clipped and talons because feet never have been clipped. It can fly too! Wings not clipped. Its wings felt like two by fours hitting me. I grabbed a huge rope toy to get it off. A trauma for sure. I know guarding instincts kick in at this time. I have had Pyrs before her. Mastiffs, Saint Bernards and German Shepherds too. I like them big. lol. So vet said no parasites, no heartworms, thyroid is good. Aggression to other dogs is behavior, I know, but why? She seems scared and unsure of them suddenly. Her growling and lunging at them is like go away from me. She is not eating. Tried everything. Her weight and blood count tells me health issue so we are treating them both. Any ideas. I have had dogs for 30 years and have never seen this. Def not with my Pyrs. Foster caring they would come to me aggressive. I knew it. I had warning. Lonni gave very little if any warning. Vet agrees it was a "sudden onslaught" Ask questions. I will answer best I can. Thanks folks

  2. #2
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Antonia's Avatar

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    Welcome to the forum! I'm sorry your girl is having these problems. Reading through your notes, my first thought is I would want to get a second opinion from another vet. Losing that much weight and with the type of behavior she is exhibiting, I would want to rule out that there is any medical condition going on. What is she currently being treated for? I know Irritable Bowel Disease, among others, can cause elevated eosiniphils. Sure sounds like she's not feeling well and that could be the reason she doesn't want the boys near her. When my boy is in pain, he is hyper-sensitive about the other dogs being near him and will start to growl when they are 10 feet away to be sure they won't approach him. Until you can get another opinion for Lonni Fay, I would keep her separate from the other dogs so they negative interactions are not continuing. This will only create more stress and reactivity for Lonni Fay and make their relationship more difficult in the future. I wish there was something else I could offer. It's so miserable to not be able to tell what is wrong when they are obviously suffering. I hope you can get to the bottom of it soon!

  3. #3
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) SebastiansMom's Avatar

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    Welcome to the forum! I am so sorry that it is under such scary circumstances.

    Was your vet able to offer any insight as to the sky-high eosinophil count? That, coupled with the dramatic weight loss leads me to believe that her sudden change of behavior is related. There are several medical conditions that cause eosinophils to be high, and symptoms that would make her feel bad enough to lash out at her furry family members. It is reasonable to think that the bird attack would contribute to the stress of feeling terrible, and could lower her tolerance of her furry family members.

    By any chance, has she been given any l-tryptophan supplements?
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  4. #4
    Young Dawg (Member)

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    She is on Trazadone to calm her. Cyproheptad for appetite stimulant and allergies. Severe allergies can contribute to high count. Zantac for stomach because eocinafils can gather there and cause stomach distress, and we may have to add Steroids. We only add one medication at a time to see what is working. The vets say she is sick. They are running another lyme disease test because it can be elusive and rechecking for any cancer activity in case they missed something.

  5. #5
    Young Dawg (Member)

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    Lonni separated I forgot to mention. After her first growl and lunge, I separated because I dont want a fight to ensue. Plus, if you knew her, you would know how out of character it was for her. She visits sick animals at hospital and nursing homes. The vets are calling me every other day to see any progress. She is due back for blood work in two weeks. No diarrhea but not much appetite. Vet says even birds that come from jurassic park dont cause high eosinaphils. We think that has made her anxious as well as not feeling well. My husband and I have never seen such a night and day transformation. Not even in rescues or fosters.

  6. #6
    Young Dawg (Member)

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    I should also mention that she is suddenly terrified of thunderstorms, loud trucks and gun fire, so she is very anxious for sure. She seems so fearful at times. Looking wildly at these noises. She never did this before. She wants to run inside and we let her. I can behavior modify and try to desensitize later when she feels better.

  7. #7
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Jewel's Avatar

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    You didn't mention whether the vet has ultrasounded her. If it were me, I would do that if just to rule out things. When drastic behavior change is accompanied by physical symptoms, there is a good chance it is a medical issue.

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    Young Dawg (Member)

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    That will be next. Ultra sound was mentioned. They want to rule out some other things first and get a second blood panel. All numbers were perfect except eocinaphils.

  9. #9
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) SebastiansMom's Avatar

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    I didnít mean to suggest that the bird attack caused the high eosinophil levels. I was referring to the concept of trigger stacking, where a combination of stressors (not feeling well, being attacked by an animal, and hearing a loud scary noise in close proximity to one another, for example) can lead the dog to react far more that she would to any of the individual stressors at any given time. I think that whatever medical condition that is causing her dramatic weight loss and high eosinophil count is likely what is causing the behavior. The bird attack may have exacerbated her phobic and reactive behavior, but it had no effect on her eosinophils, unless she somehow contracted an illness from the attack.

    If she were my dog, I would insist on an evidence-based diagnosis before starting her on steroids. If she is fighting some sort of systemic infection, the steroids will inhibit her immune systemís response. Also the use of corticosteroids in some dogs with anxiety or reactivity issues can sometimes make the behavior issues worse.
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  10. #10
    Young Dawg (Member)

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    Yes. She has been trigger stacked. I was hesitant to use that term for various reasons. We think the same. It is just noteworthy to mention as neighbor admitted to bird escaping many times for two weeks. I saw one altercation. The point was, how many happened that I didnt see? Plus Lonni put up a hellish fight getting it off her face and head. If I hadnt swung at it, who knows. She probably would have killed it. Maybe that would have been best as she would know it cant hurt her anymore or come into her territory. I have always tried to preserve life so another reason why I broke it up. I think the bird is maybe a bad coincidence at a bad time? It certainly didnt help. Clyde (her adopted 9 month old brother)was upset the whole day after that. He heard it and he was in the house. Luna, the 5 year year old Pointer was also anxious after all that mayhem. Steroids are a last resort if count isnt down. This is why they werent used first. It can make her behavior worse. She is super sweet to humans and other pets. Just the dogs she shows aggression if allowed. She is leashed and gently moved around house and yard to prevent any miscommunication. We also do it so no one has any specific territory right now. Clyde doesnt get her warnings and is confused. She can pass them civilly with directions of "move along Lonni' 'good girl, Lonni is walking" I have Clyde and Luna "go to cot" and they do so she can pass freely. They dont understand and want to be with her, but they are going to cot anyways even though you can see its killing them. I understand resource guarding. I do. Its just that it doesnt happen a flick of the switch. Resource guarding doesnt cause weight loss or high counts in blood. I see her trying to resource guard if allowed. I redirect her. Again just these dogs. She does not do this to humans. She trades happily any high value resource with a human. We watch her closely with cats. Supervised only. We are not stupid and know what could possibly happen. She is still visiting and playing with the cats. I have been told by many that Lonni is just being a hard headed jackass. Resource guarding me from the dogs. "She is just now a year, you know that kicks in Tami" Well I had nothing like this with my other Pyrs or other dogs for that matter. I have been fortunate to rehabilitate quite a few aggressive fosters who were able to go on to forever homes and do well with only minor stipulation. Am I stupid suddenly? I feel she is sick and it is causing these behaviors. The vets do as well. Its just these are not behaviors I want her practicing. It is very hard I think, to train a dog when they arent well. I am not sure how to handle this as it has never happened in all these years of me having dogs. I would like for long term, Lonni to go back to the pack. She adored them and they her. Luna mothered Lonni when she was a baby. Lonni played gently with Luna knowing she was much smaller at 50 pounds. Clyde followed her everywhere. If he whined, Lonni came to see why and lick his face. Calm him. I didnt have littermate syndrome going on either. All could function well together or separate. I need to figure out what is physically wrong with her and try to keep her behavior in check. I appreciate everyones ideas and thoughts. Your time is priceless to me for such a situation. Thank you for being kind. I did not receive that elsewhwere. I am open to any opinion or idea. Ive had these dogs for years but there is always someone who knows more and has had them longer. Many thanks

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