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    Old Dawg (Senior Member) snow0160's Avatar

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    Default How to say NO to a teenage LGD

    I’ve been having a hard time telling Kit ‘No’. I don’t know if this an LGD thing or a teenage thing. For instance, the weather has been attrotious (2 straight weeks of thunderstorms) and Kit has to stay inside. Since she can’t be outside, she brought the outdoors to her. The living room has become a wrestling ring lol. Her brother has also encouraged her wild behaviors. This has given her the idea that you can run around and body slamming me. She sees it as tag, where Lucky and her take turns body slamming into each other. He tolerates it and they will mess around until they are tired. Lucky typically only engages with Kit but Kit will try to play with me. This is when it gets a bit hard with the body slamming, pawing, and jumping.

    When I tell her ‘No’ to settle down, it actually stirs her up a lot more. She gets more rowdy and solicits more play from me. Sometimes she will try to mouth me and get me to play with her like I am Lucky. It takes a while for her to settle down and she is quite defiant. If I get really really mad she will roll over for a tummy rub. I think she has learned this is a way to calm me down and because it works, she has learned to repeat the behavior. My problems aren’t the times she rolls over but when a No sends her into a playful and defiant frenzy. She tries to do this to our pug, who is the pack ‘alpha’ and the pug will snap at her. She reacts in the same way: first with a burst of excitement and then she will back down. This is charming and fun until the bruises pile up.

    What do I do? Just wait for the teenage phase is over? I find it harder telling an LGD no because they can be more independent and less willing to respond. They will stop only when they think it is right for them rather than what pleases you.

  2. #2
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) mikelg84's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by snow0160 View Post
    I’ve been having a hard time telling Kit ‘No’. I don’t know if this an LGD thing or a teenage thing. For instance, the weather has been attrotious (2 straight weeks of thunderstorms) and Kit has to stay inside. Since she can’t be outside, she brought the outdoors to her. The living room has become a wrestling ring lol. Her brother has also encouraged her wild behaviors. This has given her the idea that you can run around and body slamming me. She sees it as tag, where Lucky and her take turns body slamming into each other. He tolerates it and they will mess around until they are tired. Lucky typically only engages with Kit but Kit will try to play with me. This is when it gets a bit hard with the body slamming, pawing, and jumping.

    When I tell her ‘No’ to settle down, it actually stirs her up a lot more. She gets more rowdy and solicits more play from me. Sometimes she will try to mouth me and get me to play with her like I am Lucky. It takes a while for her to settle down and she is quite defiant. If I get really really mad she will roll over for a tummy rub. I think she has learned this is a way to calm me down and because it works, she has learned to repeat the behavior. My problems aren’t the times she rolls over but when a No sends her into a playful and defiant frenzy. She tries to do this to our pug, who is the pack ‘alpha’ and the pug will snap at her. She reacts in the same way: first with a burst of excitement and then she will back down. This is charming and fun until the bruises pile up.

    What do I do? Just wait for the teenage phase is over? I find it harder telling an LGD no because they can be more independent and less willing to respond. They will stop only when they think it is right for them rather than what pleases you.
    I feel you.

    My first approach was (4 to 12 months): slightly raise my voice and tell her No!
    I would take her to the hole and tell her not digging in a mean voice.
    I would go to the patio door and tell her, no! you are not going outside no.
    I don't think showing her how upset I was getting really made a difference. At least in my house.

    My second approach was (12 to 16 months): kneel down and talk to her in my loving voice and tell her no. Then distract her. I would take her upstairs so she would follow me. I would give her a toy or her kong. I would rub her belly. Anything that makes her stop thinking of going outside or being loud.

    At almost 18 months now she is so much better at responding well to the command No. As I said in the "what makes you proud?" thread, I am not sure if it's a part of growing up or positive reinforcement, but my dog has been responding to the NO command a lot a lot a lot better.

  3. #3
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) snow0160's Avatar

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    Update:

    Hey guys! I got a new trainer who is going to train Kit for CGCA and CGCU. He wanted me to register her with AKC Canine Partners so she can have an registration number and titles to her name.

    I've decided on a new trainer after seeing how the old one was a bit militant with the choke collar. This guy is R+ and does not believe in ANY negative reinforcement. I brought Kit in for evaluation yesterday and I told him that she gets very excitable by new people and might misbehave. She had not had her morning walk yet and still had her crazy on. He said Kit was very sweet but just going through her teenage angst. He said she knows the commands and is highly trainable but very rowdy and just needs to get her energy out.

    As soon as I took off the Gentle Leader, she was Free and "Cray Cray" as he called her. He just ignored her because she wanted to jump up. He sat there ignoring her for five min. She got very frustrated and began pawing at him. No response. Then she barked at him for about 3 min straight (I've never seen her bark that long). No response. Then she just gave up and sat in the corner. Reward! She got a giant tastey smelly liver treat! She was sooo in love with the new trainer! I gotta be honest, the guy is seriously patient. She barked in his face for a long time with deep booming bark and he didn't respond!

  4. #4
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Antonia's Avatar

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    Great news! Sounds like the perfect guy for Kit!

  5. #5
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) snow0160's Avatar

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    After the first training class, I've come to realize Kit really isn't as badly behaved in comparison to the other two in the class. The others were also going through the teenage phase. One was 7 months and the other looked to be about a year. Kit knew all her commands and clearly knows her CGC material. I was so proud. Maybe we just needed to train in a class setting with other teenagers.

  6. #6
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) mikelg84's Avatar

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    Yay for Kit!!!

  7. #7
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Jewel's Avatar

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    This trainer seems like a good fit for Kit. I am totally for registering Kit with the AKC so you guys can enter in titling events!

  8. #8
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) SebastiansMom's Avatar

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    I have to say that a HUGE turning point for Sebastian and me was just finding a trainer who had a firm understanding of canine adolescence. Once she had me convinced that he didn’t have anything “wrong” with him, and taught me to curb my expectations and control my frustration, things changed quickly for the better.

    I know all too well how difficult it is to be in a class where absolutely nobody understands that yes, my dog is different, and no, I’m not “allowing” him to misbehave.

    I also have nearly traumatic flashbacks to when Sebastian and I lived in a pretty urban, walkable neighborhood, with tons of shops and restaurants, the patrons of which got to watch Sebastian behave in a manner that is likely worse than they have ever seen any dog behave... ever. I don’t miss the dirty looks, unsolicited bad advice, and snide quips about how I should train my dog.

    As a sign of how far Sebastian has progressed from the adorable monster he was as a teenager, tonight, I was talking to a neighbor who remarked about how calm he and Chester were. I am willing to bet money (or chocolate) that there will come a day when you will have the same experience. Double or nothing if that moment arrives sooner than you think.

    I am excited to see Kit earn all of the titles!
    Sebastian is on Facebook!
    www.facebook.com/SirSaintSebastian

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