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  1. #1
    Puppy (New Member)

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    Default do I need to worry yet? 8 wo F Great Pyr

    Two days ago I picked up a 8 week Great Pyr puppy (F) from a breeder that kept the pups and mom in the stall of a barn (that even as a messy farmer - I was disturbed) The great Pyr parents live with and protect sheep and poultry at his farm.

    Mom and pups are feed raw chicken - possibly only meaty bones (drumsticks are what I was given but need to figure out full diet still.) Yesterday I was concerned (now - VERY concerned) she's not eating enough, and her weight seems wrong for the age and breed. (8 weeks, 8 lbs, 3.2oz) She also seemed to be the largest and most active of the litter.

    I've continued offering her raw drumsticks and she works on them - but hasn't eaten that much. Also offered what I thought was the best dry feed (from Petco - Dogs unleashed), but am hearing its not appropriate for pups (28% protein, 10% fat). Nevertheless, she's eaten only ~4 oz of it in 36 hrs. She's also only eaten 1.5 large drumsticks in 48 hrs and 1 raw egg. She liked the egg, so I put another on the dry food, but she go for it. In the first 24 hrs I calculated she consumed 500 kcal. Now the 2nd 24 hrs - its less.

    My understanding is that the parents don't see a vet (just for rabies vaccine ) and the pups have not and have had no medication (deworming). I had planned to do this in a week or so. But now am concerned there may be an urgent situation.


    http://www.greatpyr.com/forum/album....achmentid=9591
    Last edited by brainfog; 05-07-2018 at 09:30 AM. Reason: add photo

  2. #2
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) nick's spirit's Avatar

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    get to the vet sooner than later...discuss all of this with him/her..

    then come back on & let us know how things are going & what the vet had to say...don't want too high a calcium content in their dry kibble, best to get a brand that is formulated for large breed puppies...some breeders don't even feed puppy food...your call along with your vets...you want these giant breeds to grow slowly...no "chunky" puppy.


    Without seeing the parents or other siblings, hard to tell at what rate she's going to grow & how big she might get...but seriously...get her to the vet soon

    she's a cutie!

    Nancy & Rudy

  3. #3
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Antonia's Avatar

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    I second getting her to a vet and would do this as soon as possible. If she's not been wormed regularly, she may have a serious parasite load that can really take a heavy toll on a pup this age. Also, if not started by the breeder, she really needs to be seen by a vet to get her puppy vaccines. I have no experience with feeding raw, especially to a puppy but it's hard to imagine a puppy with immature teeth could possible eat enough bones to take in adequate nutrition. Puppies at this age are so fragile and she can lose ground quickly. You want to be sure she's got everything working in her favor so she is healthy and growing normally.

    In December we adopted an 11 week old pup from a rescue. The breeder dumped these pups in a shelter and did not do basic care for them. They were all riddled with parasites. Despite the excellent care by the Rescue and foster home, the negligence in their early weeks of life took a toll on all the pups from this litter and has been a significant setback for all of them in one way or another. All of them have needed extra care and a watchful eye to be sure they are thriving and healthy.

    Your girl is adorable. Please keep us posted on how she does.

  4. #4
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) CaseysMom's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by brainfog View Post
    Two days ago I picked up a 8 week Great Pyr puppy (F) from a breeder that kept the pups and mom in the stall of a barn (that even as a messy farmer - I was disturbed) The great Pyr parents live with and protect sheep and poultry at his farm.

    Mom and pups are feed raw chicken - possibly only meaty bones (drumsticks are what I was given but need to figure out full diet still.) Yesterday I was concerned (now - VERY concerned) she's not eating enough, and her weight seems wrong for the age and breed. (8 weeks, 8 lbs, 3.2oz) She also seemed to be the largest and most active of the litter.

    I've continued offering her raw drumsticks and she works on them - but hasn't eaten that much. Also offered what I thought was the best dry feed (from Petco - Dogs unleashed), but am hearing its not appropriate for pups (28% protein, 10% fat). Nevertheless, she's eaten only ~4 oz of it in 36 hrs. She's also only eaten 1.5 large drumsticks in 48 hrs and 1 raw egg. She liked the egg, so I put another on the dry food, but she go for it. In the first 24 hrs I calculated she consumed 500 kcal. Now the 2nd 24 hrs - its less.

    My understanding is that the parents don't see a vet (just for rabies vaccine ) and the pups have not and have had no medication (deworming). I had planned to do this in a week or so. But now am concerned there may be an urgent situation.


    http://www.greatpyr.com/forum/album....achmentid=9591
    Welcome to the forum! I agree with nick's spirit and antonia, please get your beautiful puppy to the vet ASAP. I got my dog from a farm in which puppies were whelped and raised in a barn stall, and the conditions were horrible. The breeders also gave vaccines themselves, and the puppies ate adult dog food which was the cheapest food money could buy. Your vet will tell you everything you need to know about appropriate food for her, give her her first set of vaccines and test her for parasites. Casey was full of them when I got him at 8 months, and we had a lot of help from this forum about the best food for his particular needs. Please keep us updated on her progress.

  5. #5
    Puppy (New Member)

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    Got to speak with the breeder and it appears they were still nursing. I've read this can go on until 8-12 weeks. As the weaning was on-going, its a very abrupt transition for her to solid foods and I didn't have milk replacement. Most advice I received elsewhere assumes she was fully weaned and told me there was no place for milk in her diet, and probably aren't aware of what I'll call natural dog rearing - which is what he's doing, although with unnecessary filth.

    Its also probable the the chicken she was getting was spoiled during her transport. She's eating better, and today's weight was a bit higher. Her activity level seems normal to me. The growth charts that suggested she'd be 18-22 lbs @ 2 months are likely not appropriate for Great Pyr or naturally reared dogs.

    She's probably full of parasites - as even the adults aren't de-wormed. Another pups from the litter were transitioned directly to Wholehearted dry food (same as I'm using) - and it takes a few days.

    As a farmer myself, and not to horrify you all, I believe can handle the lite vet activities. Just need to get accurate information and help from forums! Pups are also new to me as an adult. Have some fenbendazole for dogs 'Panacur C' coming - which is the same same chemical I use for poultry (and standard in UK).

  6. #6
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) SebastiansMom's Avatar

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    Are you sure this puppy is really 8 weeks old? Why is the filthy farmer already selling puppies if they arenít fully weaned?

    As the ďMomĒ of a Parvo survivor who was taken from his Birth Mom and most of his littermates too soon (all but one died from the Parvo), I am joining the others in urging you to take this puppy to see a vet ASAP. Later, if you want to DIY her healthcare, by all means, itís your dog. Right now, though, she is particularly succeptible to a whole host of things that can kill her quickly.

    The less-than-eight-weeks thing is also very important, especially if you plan to put her in with Livestock. Dogs who are removed from their Mothers and littermates before the age of 8 weeks miss a critical part of the socialization process. From the ages of 5 and 8 weeks, they begin to learn bite inhibition, frustration tolerance, and other key social skills from their siblings. Sebastian eventually figured out the bite inhibition thing, after months of leaving me looking like a professional cat bather, but we still have a long way to go on the frustration intolerance. Believe me when I tell you that you do NOT want a six year old, 117 pound dog who has an inability to handle not getting his way that doesnít involve him acting like a jerk. I love Sebastian dearly, but he can be a major pain where the sun donít shine sometimes.

    So, yes, please. Get this dog to a vet. Make sure that she is actually 8 weeks old, and get her the Standard first round of puppy shots. FYI, the vaccine loses efficacy when not stored properly. I have a dear friend who nearly lost her brand new puppy to Parvo becausethe breeder administered the first round of shots himself. The vaccine wasnít stored correctly, and all of the puppies came down with Parvo. My friendís puppy was the only survivor, and only because my friend spent a small fortune on vet care, then brought him home to administer literal round-the-clock care.
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  7. #7
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Antonia's Avatar

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    I didn't want to speculate in my previous post but I absolutely thought when I saw the picture of your pup that she didn't look 8 weeks old to me... Natural rearing or otherwise, her life is on the line if she is not provided with appropriate food for her age and ability to digest and medical care that will treat whatever parasite load she has. This does not even touch upon Parvo, the seriousness of which SM mentioned in detail and Giardia, among other possibilities. All the pups from my girl's litter ended up with Giardia and some are still dealing with it months later. Panacur will do nothing for Parvo or Giardia and may not touch the parasites she is likely to have. If you want the best for this baby, you will take her to a vet that can provide the care that she should have to give her the best shot at life. Where we live, Parvo is a problem all year long. It is everywhere and puppies die by the hundreds because their owners thought they didn't need vaccines and were planning to raise their puppies the "natural way". I'd hate to see this girl a casualty of something so easily preventable with a bit of knowledge and care...

    Just want to add that I live a farming life myself with dairy goats, chickens, ducks and guineas hens. We've had donkeys, horses and cows in the past. We do the majority of the medical treatments for all our animals including dehorning, necessary injections, hoof care and all medications. It doesn't horrify me in the least that someone does basic medical care for the animals entrusted to their care. That is just part of life for someone raising animals. However, this is a different situation in my mind. An infant dog has some basic needs that must be filled in order for it to have the best chance at health and life. For someone not to provide this, in the form of necessary vaccinations that will prevent illness and death, is simply ignorant and irresponsible. Allowing dogs to breed without basic medical care of deworming, is to endanger the life of the parents and any offspring. It's not the way of a farmer. A true farmer cares for their animals with a deep gratitude and appreciation. With a profound sense that they live from the animals and it is a partnership, in a sense. They give to us and we give to them. A farmer by any other definition, is just a name...

  8. #8
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) mikelg84's Avatar

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    Brainfog , I would be curious to know if your dog has been tested for coxiella burnetii. When I rescued my dog from a barn in Tennessee, many pups came positive for C. Burnetii. The bacteria causes fever and anorexia and it's the reason why some pups are underweight. If you believe that she is full of parasites, I would keep ccoxiella burnetii in mind. It's very easy to spread through urine and milk in not so clean conditions.

    Keep us updated.

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    Puppy (New Member)

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    So to my amazement the Vet stated that my pup is 100% healthy. No fever or Int/Ext parasites. She's probably not eating much due to transition stress, but each day the weight continues to increase somewhat (she's +6 oz). Got a distemper shot, and some preventive pills for parasites. I can only conclude that she and parents must have great genes!



    Quote Originally Posted by mikelg84 View Post
    Brainfog , I would be curious to know if your dog has been tested for coxiella burnetii. When I rescued my dog from a barn in Tennessee, many pups came positive for C. Burnetii. The bacteria causes fever and anorexia and it's the reason why some pups are underweight. If you believe that she is full of parasites, I would keep ccoxiella burnetii in mind. It's very easy to spread through urine and milk in not so clean conditions.

    Keep us updated.

  10. #10
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) SebastiansMom's Avatar

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    Thatís great news!
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