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  1. #11
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Tsunibear's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by snow0160 View Post
    For poodle owners, many people hate doodles because of breeders do charge unjustifable prices for them. Today I saw a Pyredoodle at the farmer's market and the owners said they paid $4k. I've seen Bernedoodles go for $6k. I understand the justification here because the doodle breeders are seen as unethical and greedy. I'm sure this isn't true for all doodle breeders but the general trend for poodle mixes are very expensive and the demand remains high. Now, why shame LGD mixed breed? I've also seen a lot of shaming of bully breeds but that is a new can of worms.
    Okay as a groomer I am going to chime in on this one. Your boy Lucky is what I call a rare doodle. He has the perfect coat and color. 95% of the doodles that I work on are being sold as hypo allergenic which isn't the case until you get into an F3 doodle which is a third generation doodle bred to another third generation doodle. That's the only time you get the proper head and body structure as well as the coat. I have a customer who paid $3000 for a maltipoo and that dog is a maltipoo/yorkie and they got took. Designer mutts are just that mutts. I say that as the owner of a designer mutt that's right Pyr/Berner mixes are called Ozark Mountain Dogs...it's a mutt.

    Now onto why people shame a border collie LGD mix...they shame that because you are breeding a dog with a high prey drive with a dog that should have little to no prey drive and then trying to market them as LGD's when in reality they will most likely fail due to the herding dog in them. A border collie is a neurotic breed they are giant chihuahuas unless you are giving them something to dog. They aren't happy just laying in the middle of the flock doing nothing they have to work physically or mentally they have to be doing something. You don't want that in a LGD. Now that being said I own Missy who is two different styles of working dogs bred together and she thrives in a working situation.

    As for LGD's not making good companions that's a lie because not everyone is made to work. I use to volunteer with a Pyr rescue who took in working dogs so we were trained to look for whether or not that dog could actually work safely with a flock. Even if you took them back to their roots you would find out not all of them are made to work. It's an individual thing that you have to look at when picking a dog.

    Can an LGD be trained heck yes they can. Missy is CGC certified and had all of the qualifications to become a therapy dog. Hell if her leg wasn't bad she could have been trained to be a service animal because she naturally picks up on the proper ques.

    Now I have been told that it is mean of me to keep Missy as a pet knowing that she can excel in LGD work. She is great with chickens and air born predators which is something you usually can't train a dog to do they have to know how to do it naturally for the most part. Missy has saved my Mom's chihuahua from hawks at least 10 times. One time the bird was flying low enough that I could have probably touched it. Missy positioned herself over the chihuahua while barking and growling and stayed over that dog until it was safely inside. Some dogs have it some dogs don't and if anyone says differently they are a liar.

  2. #12
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) snow0160's Avatar

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    The reason all of this came up was because I friended this woman who owns a Maremma from the same breeder and her dog is related to Kit. I sent her a couple of photos of Kit and one of them was her sitting on my bed with Lucky goofing around. She went on to educate me how a Maremma should never be kept as a pet because their personality change around 2 years and cannot be a successful pet. Her Maremma exhibited some of the same aggression/ grumpy guarding tendencies as Sahara. Her dog was very resource aggressive, hated people, and disliked other dogs. She believed it was breed characteristics rather than particular to an individual dog. I had tried to let her know that Kit loves people more than any of my other dogs. She tried to convince me that this friendly puppy behavior would soon come to an end no matter how much socialization/training I put in. Kit would most likely end up like Sahara or possibly worse. Her dog is a working dog rather than a pet who is kept mostly outdoors. I don't think she meant to be mean but definitely tried to let me know that Kit needs to be an guardian of livestock rather than kept as a pet. To be honest, the conversation kinda freaked me out and made me feel bad.

    I had consulted my trainer about this and she said Kit is very unusual for an LGD. She has worked with a lot of pyreneeses over the years and she said they tend to be aloof around people and not treat motivated. She said some of her behavior is because she is a puppy but she thinks that each dog is unique and Kit might just be super friendly and food motivated. I also asked my trainer about the behavioral change around 2. She said it applied to dogs who have not been fixed. They can expereince temperment changes during their heat cycles. It is like human puberty and PMS. I laughed at her response and it made sense. She explained that if we continued to socialize her and spayed her, she most likely will remain the same.

    The Maremma/Border collie thing was a thing a while back. I don't' think it was in an LGD group but a Maremma group. I've seen crossposting across different groups so it might have ended up in other places. Every once in a while these group get into a spat over how someone's dog is better than everyones. They are the one breeding the 'truest' LGD with the best structure, temperment, and etc.. You see these spats all the time across most dog breeds. I suppose the drama is like any other niche profession.

  3. #13
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Jewel's Avatar

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    My experience is limited to pyrs so can only speak as to pyrs. We've had pyrs for 17 years and I've been around a lot of them over the years. Compared to pyrs, Kit is not entirely freak unique in her friendliness with humans. I've met plenty who are great with humans. They are plenty that work as therapy dogs. So I wouldn't say that Kit's temperament is really that unusual.

    As to the personality shift, it happens to some and plenty others do not go through that. My first pyr and Bijou never had that personality shift. Ren is doing well at 12 months and counting. Even Bro, who was the only one of mine that turned dog reactive and human shy as he turned two, eventually mellowed out so much that people who met him later in his life could not believe he was ever reactive. I can also say that the personality shift didn't happen with many of my friends' dogs - and many of those are intact show dogs. Indeed, when I was at the 2013 Pyr Nationals that was held in Texas, I was impressed watching all these people walking these huge intact pyrs around the hotel grounds on flex leads in relatively close quarters without any issues.

  4. #14
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) SebastiansMom's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by snow0160 View Post
    The reason all of this came up was because I friended this woman who owns a Maremma from the same breeder and her dog is related to Kit. I sent her a couple of photos of Kit and one of them was her sitting on my bed with Lucky goofing around. She went on to educate me how a Maremma should never be kept as a pet because their personality change around 2 years and cannot be a successful pet. Her Maremma exhibited some of the same aggression/ grumpy guarding tendencies as Sahara. Her dog was very resource aggressive, hated people, and disliked other dogs. She believed it was breed characteristics rather than particular to an individual dog. I had tried to let her know that Kit loves people more than any of my other dogs. She tried to convince me that this friendly puppy behavior would soon come to an end no matter how much socialization/training I put in. Kit would most likely end up like Sahara or possibly worse. Her dog is a working dog rather than a pet who is kept mostly outdoors. I don't think she meant to be mean but definitely tried to let me know that Kit needs to be an guardian of livestock rather than kept as a pet. To be honest, the conversation kinda freaked me out and made me feel bad.
    Yes, it is true that when an LGD grows into their adult personality, they CAN become less tolerant of new people and/or dogs, regardless of how well the dog was socialized. That does not, however, mean that it happens across the board to every dog. It sounds like this woman is basing her entire worldview of LGDs on her personal experience with one dog. Not really fair to the LGDs who reach adulthood without undergoing this change. I can think of several Pyrs and several Anatolians just off the top of my head who excelled at therapy work. That requires that the dog NOT be unfriendly or aloof.

    If I remember correctly, Kit’s breeder selected the puppy that was best suited to your needs. Thus far, Kit is very well suited to the life she leads. The puppy your FB friend ended up with, I’m not so sure. However, the issue with her dog could just as easily been one of nurture, as opposed to nature.

    Now, several of us have said this before, and I am going to say it again. Resource guarding IS NOT AN INHERENT TRAIT IN THE MAJORITY OF LGDs!!! It’s maladaptive in the working world. Imagine a working dog out in the field is chewing on a stick, or something, and is approached by one of its charges. Do you think that dog is going to live to see tomorrow if it goes after a lamb or a ewe or a goat or a chicken for coming too close to its stick? Doubt it.

    A good working LGD also has to demonstrate that they have good judgement of who is friend and who is foe. For example, you have stated before that Sahara had a problem when workers came to your house, and wouldn’t settle down even though it was pretty obvious that you were 1) okay with the worker being there and 2) in no danger from said worker. There are a lot of scenarios in which that would very much be a dangerous liability. Assessing the situation and responding appropriately is as much a part of the job they do as alerting to the presence of a potential threat. An inappropriate aggressive response could cost the farmer the farm.

    Sahara may be the true love of your life, but she was not the end-all-be-all of what a typical LGD is or should be, no matter how badly you might want her to be. That doesn’t mean that she was any less valuable.

    Quote Originally Posted by snow0160 View Post
    I had consulted my trainer about this and she said Kit is very unusual for an LGD. She has worked with a lot of pyreneeses over the years and she said they tend to be aloof around people and not treat motivated. She said some of her behavior is because she is a puppy but she thinks that each dog is unique and Kit might just be super friendly and food motivated. I also asked my trainer about the behavioral change around 2. She said it applied to dogs who have not been fixed. They can expereince temperment changes during their heat cycles. It is like human puberty and PMS. I laughed at her response and it made sense. She explained that if we continued to socialize her and spayed her, she most likely will remain the same.
    Kit actually fits the “typical LGD” profile a lot better than Sahara. Yes, some of her friendly, boisterous behavior IS probably rooted in the fact that she is still a puppy. There IS a chance that she COULD lose interest in making new friends as she matures. That doesn’t mean that it definitely WILL happen, though. It just MIGHT.

    The notion that LGDs aren’t typically food motivated is baloney. A lot of people try one or two things before deciding that their dog isn’t motivated by food. The truth is that for the vast majority of these cases, it just takes the RIGHT food to motivate them. Give Sebastian certain treats, and he will literally spit them out. Give him brisket, and he turns into a circus poodle. Some dogs also perform better when a variety of treats are offered. Not only does it help to prevent them from getting sick of the same old same old, the anticipation of, “What treat am I going to get this time? Chicken? Hot Dog? Cheese? BRISKET!?!?!?!” helps to keep them excited and motivated.

    Quote Originally Posted by snow0160 View Post
    The Maremma/Border collie thing was a thing a while back. I don't' think it was in an LGD group but a Maremma group. I've seen crossposting across different groups so it might have ended up in other places. Every once in a while these group get into a spat over how someone's dog is better than everyones. They are the one breeding the 'truest' LGD with the best structure, temperment, and etc.. You see these spats all the time across most dog breeds. I suppose the drama is like any other niche profession.
    I would treat any American Maremma group as a working-dogs-only group. Sure, there are Maremmas out there who are kept as pets, but the parent breed club tends to frown upon that. Again, I think that person was reacting more to a breed mix that is ill-suited to LGD work, and that they might have had a different response to seeing a picture of puppies that were Maremma mixed with a second LGD breed.

    If you read the breed standard for any particular LGD breed, you’ll notice that the desirable traits described in the breed standard directly promote the breed’s working ability, even in breeds recognized by the AKC. It’s not like Labrador Retrievers, where the stocky, “English” type occupy the show ring, and the leaner “Field” type work as gun dogs. With purebred LGDs, traits sought in show lines are exactly the same as traits sought in good working lines. It’s not unheard of for successful show LGDs to “retire” to guarding livestock at the ends of their careers.

    As to anyone who thinks that their breed is the purest and the all-around best, well, methinks they might be trying to sell puppies, and, well, they are full of you-know-what. For example, Anatolians are used in Kenya to guard livestock against cheetahs, because their coats, temperaments, and fast running speeds make them well-suited to the task. (The Anatolians were gifted to Kenyan ranchers as part of a cheetah conservation initiative.) Central Asian Shepherds, on the other hand, are bulkier, and have a more aggressive protection style, making them less well-suited to protecting livestock from Cheetahs. I’m sure there are applications where CASs are better suited to a particular situation than Anatolians.

    Sahara was Sahara, and Kit is Kit. They are/were both wonderful in their own ways. Yes, it’s fun to see the ways in which they are alike and the ways they differ, but it’s a little unfair to Kit to say that she’s an oddball LGD just because she’s not a carbon copy of Sahara. In reality, it’s Sahara that doesn’t quite fit the profile of what an ideal LGD should be. That doesn’t mean that she had any less value. She spent eight years as an irreplaceable member of your family. That is, in and of itself, priceless.
    Sebastian is on Facebook!
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  5. #15
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) snow0160's Avatar

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    It is hard for me to not idolize Sahara. My husband tells me that I remembered all the good and excused any of the bad. He said the dogs we have in many ways are exactly what I wanted in a dog: friendly, silly, and playful. If you asked me, Sahara was like a magical unicorn dog that came to my life at a time. when I needed a friend. Despite the fact that I rescued her, it felt like we’ve developed an unbreakable bond and it felt like she rescued me. She felt like my guardian angel who was always watching over me. Sometimes I felt like she was the only soul who understood me. It is hard to remember her in any other way. I think when she passed away, it happened too fast and I was not prepared. I tried to get Sahara back by getting a new dog of the same breed. If she fit into a certain breed mold, then perhaps I can get my Sahara back again. It doesn’t make any logical sense but is more of an emotional response that I figured I would have gotten over by now.

    As for Kit, she is wonderful dog. She has her moments where she embarrasses the crap out of me. Sometimes I wonder if young Sahara was like this but I can’t imagine her as anything but diginified and majestic. Kit is exactly how I had always imagined what it would be like to own a dog. She is the cuddliest dog I’ve ever met. This morning I was sleeping in because it is Columbus Day and I had the day off. I woke up around 10 am to find a giant warm Kit sprawled out on my bed and cuddling against my back. I was surprised she didn’t wake me earlier because when she pants, the whole bed shakes. Lol. I tried to move over and she cuddles even closer and chased me across the bed until I had no room. At that point, she rested her head on my shoulders. She is as affectionate as they come. It was such a sweet and magical moment! If you asked me what kind of dog I had wanted when I was five years old, I would have told you Clifford the big red dog. Kit is now I’d imagine Clifford would be my big cuddly goofball.

    I was thinking about Jewels comment about the various Pyrenees I’ve met over the years and almost all of them are friendly except a working dog that spent most of its life tethered to a tree. Hey, I would be grumpy too if I was tethered to a tree. I’ve met a few friendly Pyrenees who worked on farms through the fl pyr rescue but most Pyrs I’ve seen in public live in the suburbs, or the city.

    Akc nationals are here in Orlando every December and I was at the Pyr conformation show. It was the closet I could get to a Maremma show since they are not part of Akc. They were all intact and well behaved. I would describe them as mellow, friendly, and silly. This was one of the reasons, I was drawn to LGDs in the first place. I haven’t met many adolescent LGDs in public come to think of it but they do make interesting stories.
    Kits breeder actually thought Kit was on the dominant side. I guessed that she was ok selling me a Maremma due to my experience with Sahara. She warned me Kit might end up like that so I was well prepared. I tried pretty hard socializing this dog and now she likes people a little too much. A few days ago, I practiced socialization with her down a busy part of town that is super dog friendly. As we cruised by the outdoor dining area, I got a lot of people who stop us every few mins to ask questions. This is Kits favorite thing. Every time she sits calmly to be petted. The ones who are dog people get a little too excited by her energy and talk in a silly voice, which usually prompts her to jump up to say hello, except this time she tried to steal this family’s food. She jumped up and the got a piece of flatbread and started running away. It was incredibly silly and made everyone laugh. I had to apologize profusely but they didn’t care and thought it was hysterical.

  6. #16
    Puppy (New Member) ScandalVandal11's Avatar

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    I'm new to this forum and am happy to reply. I am a former Pyr owner and now own a Maremma Sheepdog and an Anatolian / Chow mix (our "Chanatolian") along with a German Shepherd / English Shepherd mix and a Yorkie mix. There is some truth to the idea that LGDs should not be kept as pets although I disagree that it's cruel or impossible to keep them as pets. The important thing is to know what you're getting into and to understand the breed. LGD breed organizations tend to be protective of their breeds and want to keep them working for two reasons: To prevent them from losing hundreds or even thousands of years of instinct and because some of the more popular breeds (thanks to the AKC) such as Pyrs and Anatolians do end up in shelters and rescue organizations once people who know nothing about them start buying from backyard breeders.
    A third reason for this suggestion is that all LGD breeds have very strong guarding instincts that are usually not influenced by the actions of their owner. In other words, once they decide that a person / dog is a threat they'll act according to what they think is right which might pose a risk.
    So my suggestion is to be smart about it and do your research. In my case, all of my dogs are pets, not working dogs and it's been successful. I adopted a Pyr from my local shelter who had been unloaded by his family who couldn't tolerate his adolescent chewing phase. This beautiful dog was gentle, kind and 100% trustworthy with the family and kids. He was not dog aggressive except for the time when he had to put an aggressive Rottweiler in his place, which made me realize how strong his protective instinct was. A few years after he passed away, I thought about getting another Pyr. However, my one complaint about the breed is their tendency to wander so I looked into the Maremma which tends to stick closer to home.
    I didn't take this decision lightly and found a breeder who really cares about his dogs and the alpacas they guard. I had the breeder choose the pup that he thought would be happiest in a home. As far as I know, this was the first pup he sold as a pet as the rest went to farms. From the time we got her, we implemented heavy socialization with people, young children, other dogs, etc. and also exercise her a lot with our other dogs. As far as training, Maremma are very intelligent and learn quickly but don't often respond right away until they figure what's in it for them. My Chanatolian is pretty much the same way. So far, our Maremma is very sociable, well-adjusted and happy. She loves her people, her dog pack and kitties but she is starting to show some aggression towards big dogs who are strangers, which is to be expected. Generally, Maremmas have a sharper more reactive temperament than Pyrs. However, both of these breeds tend to be on the "tamer" side of the LGD scale compared to, let's say, the Akbash, who I was warned, can become dangerous as pets. (I have no experience with this breed, but spoke to a person involved in Akbash rescue who advised strongly against them based on certain traits.)
    So, to recap, either find a good breeder or rescue organization who has properly screened your future LGD, do your reading and be prepared to bring in a dog that won't act like a lab or shepherd. Plan on socializing, lots of good walks (which is great for bonding as well as exercise) and firm discipline as he or she will need to respect you as alpha. If all goes well, you will have a loyal and calm companion for years to come.






    Quote Originally Posted by snow0160 View Post
    I was chatting with other LGD owners on Facebook and many of them do not believe LGD should ever be kept from their natural instinct guarding livestock. I know for certain breeds such as Maremmas, breeders don't even sell them for companion/pet purposes. They argue that when you do, you see a surge in abandoned dogs in rescues or overbreeding. The idea is that as companion animals since they do not work or exercise their instinct to guard, and thus, develop unwanted behavioral issues such as aggression, over vocalization..etc. Many believe they do poorly with obedience and cannot be trained as a companion dog.

    I wonder how true some of these arguments are. This is the age-old argument of Nature vs Nurture. Most of the people making these arguments have LGDs that never stepped a paw inside a home. They have lived outside with very little human interaction. If you subject any dog of any breed to those condition, I doubt their reaction would be different. If you don't socialize a dog to other humans, I doubt they would like other people. I am not sure this is their natural instinct or just lack of exposure. The same can be said about basic obedience.

    If you survey these farm dogs, I wonder how many of them have received formal obedience. Yes, i do believe certain breeds are harder to train but that is not to say they are not trainable. It seems to me that even protecting livestock is a training process and so is the CGC.

    So here are some questions:
    1. Are LGDs less happy as pets rather than working dogs? Is it cruel to keep them against their instinct to roam and protect?
    2. Just because they don't excel in obedience, does that mean they cannot master it?
    3. Many Pyrs are mistaken for English Goldens. Their temperaments are truly different. Do you believe that LGDs should not be recommended as pets due to abandonment issues? Their adolescent phase is truly challenging and long. Many dog owners are not equipped to handle large dogs. I know a lot of rescues recommend Pyrs only to those who have handled LGDs before.
    4. Many LGD breeds do not want to be part of the AKC because a rise in popularity can lead to overbreeding and all the problems associated with it such as health decline, abandoned dogs..etc. Many argue that this is seen with the Great Pyrenees. How true is that?
    5. Does your LGD prefer indoors or out? Do indoors dogs have better health? If you can keep an eye on your dog at all times, isn't easier addressing any health-related problem such as simple injuries to lyme disease etc. I know both Kit and Sahara never stayed outside longer than checking the parameters of the yard. They stroll right on back to the AC area lol. On the flip side, there are wild dogs that live in the wilderness and they do fine in their den. Since I live in Orlando, FL, I cannot stop thinking about the Orcas at Sea World. They live twice as long in captivity but I wonder how happy they are. One of them became aggressive and killed a few people. Perhaps it is a bad idea to compare domesticated dogs to Orcas.

  7. #17
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Shaggys Mom's Avatar

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ID:	9313We adopted our Pyr, Sir Moose from the Texas Great Pyrenees Rescue. I had grown up and had English Setters for many many years. then and Irish Setter "dropped" in mylap (appearaed at my door, thin, covered in fleas, no collar. When he passed 8 years later, I was given an Irish Setter pup and had him 12 1/2 years. Before his death, we got our first of 6 golden retrievers. When Honey passed in Aug.2014, we adopted our first Pyr from the TGPR, but sadly lost Shaggy 3 1/2 weeks later to hemangiosarcoma. I had known a few Prys over the years, but did research more before adopting Shaggy. On his death the reacue said they would give me my money back or I could take another dog. I opted for another 7 year old.

    We know nothing of Sir Moose's first 3 years. He was found stealing food off a salad bar at an open air café on the River Walk in San Antonio. He was adopted from the TGPR and they had him for 4 years. But then decided to move back home to Minn to run a Bed and Breakfast and didn't think that was the place for a large, shedding barking dog. They turned him back to the rescue, but with the promise of fostering him until a new owner was found or it was their time to move. I do know of his good life with them. We adopted him Sept. 30, 2014. We met them half way and they asked if I would e-mail and tell them how he did on the 100 mile trip down here, and how he adjusted. I did and e-mailed pictures. Shortly after that they asked if we would take their 11 year old golden retriever. She had bad arthritis in knees and hips and they decided the winter would be to hard on her up in Minn. so we took her. Any way, it has been over 3 years and we stay in contact. About once every 2-3 weeks I send them a "Sir Moose News Letter" telling them of his adventures, of his liver disease, how he is doing, etc and send pictures. Jill has e[-mailed and post mailed me several copies of pictures of him and of Sophie (the golden). In fact I got a picture today. She said Sir Moose always let the little dog sleep on him.

    Sir Moose loves all kids and people, thinks everyone who comes here comes to see him. He is friends some some cats on his daily walk routes, especially one named Yellow Cat. When he sees Jerry and Sir Moose coming, he comes out to the sidewalk to greet them. One thing we have noticed is he does NOT like birds of pray flaying around--hawks, ospreys, Eagles, etc. He watches them and gets up and barks and then starts churning up grass and dirt with his back feet. Once they start flaying off, he stops baking, but watches until they are gone.

    I leaned from the rescue that many Pyrs and Pyr Anato. mixes are turned in because they would rather be with people than flocks or herds, etc. So they are "no good" to the rancher or farmer, so they will take them to the pound (and the rescue gets them there) or just dump them somewhere. Is really sad.

    The picture is the one I got from his former owners today./ Was taken about 5 years ago when he would have been about 5.
    Jerry and Moose

  8. #18
    Puppy (New Member)

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    Perhaps it is a bad idea to compare domesticated dogs to Orcas.
    It's a very bad idea! Orcas live and are adapted to a completely different environment to humans. I probably don't need to say it to folks on this forum -- dogs (as a subspecies of wolves) have lived and co-evolved with humans over millennia. It was to the mutual advantage of dogs and humans to team up. The dog gets the advantage of the human's big brain, the human gets the advantage of the dog's keen hearing, smell, and hunting abilities. There is no such special relationship with the orca -- they can be trained, but that doesn't compare with how well dogs and humans are adapted to each other.

    Feel free to cut and paste the above into Facebook arguments

  9. #19
    Road Dawg mikelg84's Avatar

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    On twitter, I block people who think that I am making the life of my Pyr/Anatolian miserable. I don't need that type of negativity in my life. At some point, I tried having a conversation with them, but it was too much. Usually, it's the people who own farms or have pure breeds those that seem to be a little bit negative about the idea of having a LGD as a pet.

    I really think my dog is happy and stress free. She likes to look through the window ALL THE TIME, bark at night when she hears something outside that we can't hear, protect my family, etc.. All the things that pure Pyr or in my case mixPyr do. Just because she isn't outside keeping an eye on sheeps, doesn't mean she isn't fulfilling her intrinsic genetic demands. Pippa sleeps on the second floor, right by the stairs, so she can see the front door and "protect us" at night. If it's too windy, she will wake me up to let me know" "hey, I'm not sure if it's the wind or maybe there is someone knocking on the door". What I am trying to say is that this type of behavior is also valid and I'm sure if she could talk, she would feel accomplished and happy about doing so. Just because she is in house with no other animals, doesn't mind she can't do any job.

  10. #20
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Jewel's Avatar

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    I have little interest in what people with working LGDs have to say about my companion dogs. Since I don't have anything to contribute to their discussions about how to deal with working dogs, I think they have nothing to contribute to discussions about family companion dogs. I am sure this type of debate exists in every other breed. Surely huskies can't be happy unless the are pulling sleds... terriers can't be happy unless they are diving into holes in the ground and killing small varmints... pointers can't be happy unless they are, uh, um, pointing?.... and the list goes on...

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