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  1. #11
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) nick's spirit's Avatar

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    Darcie....since your children allow her up on their beds, she really, at her age,does not understand the difference of why she can get on one bed & not the other....I hate to say it...but everyone in the house should be on the same wave length when it comes to training any dog...same rules apply from everyone, same words are used to describe the desired reaction....sit, paw, off, down etc.

    it kind of disturbs me that you say she "nips" at you. Not being able to see exactly what you are describing, it is something that is difficult to comment on, but something that needs to be toned down if you think it is escalating.

    sometimes they act like spoiled kids & you need to ignore them, which after you discipline her you might want to do...they are very sensitive & ignoring them is not something they like.

    "pack-leadership"....no such word in the Pyr world....team work & trusting your judgement....those are the things you are looking for...

    oh...and the puppy obedience class....when she gets to maturing you can expect her to start questioning your "requests" some people interpret that as stubbornness....it is more that they have been bred to think for themselves & she will process the validity of what you are asking her to do....call it what you will...it is a trait they seem to retain.

    Our first girl loved to get on the couch when my husband would read the paper....she'd put her head under the paper & demand a pet & his attention...if that didn't work she'd paw the paper out of his hands!

    Our Nick loved the couch!!! I would stand the cushions up at night, in the morning he had figured out how to either get them down again or lay between them...

    Our other two...not couch potatoes at all....nor do they like coming on the bed...

  2. #12
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Jewel's Avatar

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    We are on our 4th pyr. The previous 3 were not allowed on furniture and they were good about it, didn't try to do it behind our backs at all. My boy we allowed on our bed when he turned 7-8 yrs old and developed storm anxiety. My current pup, who is now 5 months, is allowed on furniture but he's not all that focused on being on the couch or our bed. He gets on the couch now and then. He's on the bed more often but mostly to cuddle with us. If we're not on the bed, he's not interested to be on it.

    Your puppy is actually exhibiting behavior that is related to her GSD side, it seems to me. Of my four, three were/is purebreds, one was 1/2 pyr. The 1/2 exhibited behavior very different from the others. Very distinct from the purebreds. The fact that your pup is very jumpy at 4 months is more like the GDS than pyrs. Some pyr pups don't start jumping until they're past 5 months.

  3. #13
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Rena450's Avatar

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    I didn't let Lyric on any furniture until about a month ago. I actually had a hard time getting her to to get up on the couch and my bed. Now the only time she'll go on the couch in the family room is if I'm on there or my daughter ...... (so far) She is not allowed on my daughters bed and knows it ....... it took a few "ah, ah, ah, off!', but she got the hang of it in no time.

    When I go to bed, she'll jump up and lay with me, but, during the night I think she gets too warm and ends up on the floor next to me. However, when I'm taking a shower, she'll jump up on the bed and wait for me. If I take too long, she starts barking ......... talk about demanding ....

    She hogs the whole couch ... she's got her head on my lap

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    Last edited by Rena450; 03-05-2017 at 10:54 AM.

  4. #14
    Young Dawg (Member) Darcie's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by nick's spirit View Post

    it kind of disturbs me that you say she "nips" at you. Not being able to see exactly what you are describing, it is something that is difficult to comment on, but something that needs to be toned down if you think it is escalating.

    sometimes they act like spoiled kids & you need to ignore them, which after you discipline her you might want to do...they are very sensitive & ignoring them is not something they like.

    "pack-leadership"....no such word in the Pyr world....team work & trusting your judgement....those are the things you are looking for...
    So anytime we give her a "reprimand" (any command to stop something...leave it, down, no bite) she gets really indignant. Bearing teeth with the scrunched nose and snapping. She dinfinitely knows I'm dominant but questions these commands and acts offended by them. I say she knows I'm dominant because she avoids eye contact when I give these orders, she sits and waits watching me till I give her the ok to eat her food, she basically obeys me when I give these commands, but she acts ticked about it. It disturbs me too! But is it because she views herself as an independent thinker/partner with me rather than my subordinate? I was drawn to the breed because of the gentle with kids trait. She has been so rough with my kids. She bites them every single day. They try really hard to hold their ground and everyone uses the same vocabulary with her but she hurts them. I think it usually starts out as mouthy rough play and when they tell her to stop she gets offended and it escalates because they try to stand their ground. She never guards her food or toys. I want to stop bad habits but am also wondering if there are some battles not worth pursuing with pyrs? When multiples are out in the fields isn't there a dominant one? Or are they total partners?

  5. #15
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) SebastiansMom's Avatar

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    Your puppy isn't being "dominant". She's being a four-month-old puppy.

    The general rule with large and giant breed puppies is that one month of puppy development is the rough equivalent of a year's worth of human child development. By that measure, your puppy is still a preschooler. My experience with preschoolers is admittedly limited to my two nephews, but I distinctly remember that when they were four, they needed consistent reminders of what the rules were. They are eight now, and still need to be reminded.

    Along the same lines, allowing your puppy on the couch won't make her any more "dominant" than it makes your kids. I presume that they are allowed on the couch, and that the privilege hasn't turned them into monsters. Now, there are good reasons not to allow her on the couch, if that's your choice. However, you have to take the time to TEACH her where she is and is not allowed, you have to be patient with her when she forgets, and you have to get the entire family on board with keeping the rules consistent. If she isn't allowed on the couch, she can't be allowed on the kids' beds, either.

    The idea that all dogs behave badly because they are "dominant" is 100% false. Dominance theory is an outdated theory based on a faulty study of captive wolves. In a nutshell, a group of scientists assembled a group of wolves who would never have lived together in the wild, and contained them all in an enclosure that was far smaller that a wolf pack's natural territory would be. When the wolves fought, the scientists assumed that they were fighting for status. They then made the assumption that domesticated dogs behaved in a similar manner to the captive wolves.

    Years later, scientists studied wild wolves in their natural habitat. The wild wolves did not behave the way the captive wolves in the original study had. Eventually, they figured out that the captive wolves had NOT been fighting for status, they had instead been fighting over a severe lack of resources.

    With dogs, leadership is not about being the "Alpha". It is much more about building a relationship with your dog that is based on communication and trust. You do that, in part, by rewarding the good behavior and redirecting the bad. You also do that by limiting her opportunities to practice unwanted behaviors, and keeping realistic expectations of how she should behave. For what it's worth, right now, her behavior sounds like that of a four month old puppy who is frustrated because her people keep reprimanding her without showing her what they really want her to do.

    I'm going to suggest that you have a trainer who specializes in reward-based, positive reinforcement techniques, come to your house and teach the whole family how to redirect your puppy instead of reprimanding her. I'm also going to recommend that you read The Other End of the Leash by Patricia McConnell ASAP.
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  6. #16
    Young Dawg (Member) Darcie's Avatar

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    Thank you so much SebastiansMom. We had a wonderful and kind trainer come to our house and work with us and she didn't recommend alpha rolling or any of the harsh methods but did encourage pack leadership which she has used to positively transform other pet relationships. But thanks to your wisdom, we will eliminate any negative reprimands and praise good behavior. We were doing this for several months but without any notable progress I lost my patience in defense of my kids. i will remember that she is still young and extend her patience. And try to find that book! Thanks again.

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