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  1. #11
    Road Dawg no human intentions's Avatar

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    well he does have 2 testi's i can feel them about the size of corn kernals. i just can see them, but he's still pretty fuzzy on the back end too. now everyone on the facbook group is telling me he's way to thin, that he prolly has worms and that i should worm again. and that he shouldnt have lost his coat like this at 4 1/2 months. they are also telling me to take him off puppy food and put him on adult food. it was also suggested that i get salmon fish oil pills and give them to him twice daily. they say this will help his coat and not shed as much. so i just did go out and get some pills. i just gave him 1...now i am remebering my mother who took fish oil pills when she was constapaited....i hope these pills dont mess up his doo dee's. he's really regular with nice stools and i'd like to keep it that way. as far as worming i've decided to get his stool tested. does anyone here think he is to thin? or that he has lost his coat too soon and awkwardly?

  2. #12
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Jewel's Avatar

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    It looks to me he had a huge growth spurt. I looked at the video you posted in February, and in 5 weeks his entire body changed from baby to teenager. He may have lost coat because of this huge growth spurt. He looks a bit thin - but that would be the more reason to keep him on puppy food, in my opinion. Fish oil is very good for coat.

  3. #13
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Tsunibear's Avatar

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    Personally he doesn't look too thin in my opinion. He also doesn't look like he has worms either, usually you can look at a dog and tell. Also his poop should give you signs of worms.

    Again as for the puppy vs adult food it is personal preference. I only gave Missy puppy food until she was about 5 months old because, my other dog was eating it and I was having food issues with Missy so I had to switch foods anyways. She is now on Diamond Naturals lamb formula and large breed chicken formula mix.

    As for the coat thing I really believe that the weather has an effect on it. I see dogs all the time go through coat changes due to the weather. If he isn't itching, has any sores, fleas or ticks or isn't completely bald I wouldn't worry too much about it personally.

  4. #14
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) TexasKat's Avatar

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    ....is telling me he's way too thin, that he prolly has worms and that i should worm again.
    If he is on Heartworm meds (which he should be by now) he likely doesn't have worms, since HW meds prevent most other kinds of internal parasites too. If he's NOT on HW preventative, you should get him on it as soon as possible.

    they are also telling me to take him off puppy food and put him on adult food.
    Adult food is lower in calories than puppy food, so if you think he needs to gain weight giving him the higher calorie puppy food would be better. He doesn't look thin to me either. Compared to a roly-poly puppy, he's thinner, but if he's eating all he wants and has good energy, his weight will catch up a bit once his growth spurt slows a bit.

    ....this will help his coat and not shed as much.
    Yes, it will help his coat, but from this statement, I doubt that any of your Facebook friends own a Pyr. NOTHING makes them 'shed less'. In fact, shedding their undercoat is a requirement for them to be healthy. They shed the heavier 'cool weather' undercoat as the cool months turn warm and grow in a lighter 'summer-weight' undercoat for the warm months. At the end of the 'warm months' they'll shed that one to be replaced with a heavier 'cool weather' undercoat.

    Pyrs shed their coats as a part of their own environmental protection gear. It ALL has to come out and be replaced if their coat system is to work properly.

    ...that he has lost his coat too soon and awkwardly?
    It's a little young, but not at all awkward. Pyr pups grow 'in parts'. Sometimes their back legs look too long, sometimes, their front legs look odd for a little while. Their tails grow too, but not at the same rate as their legs, so sometimes their tails brush the ground and a week later, you'll notice it doesn't anymore. The only thing I'd suggest is that (until his outer coat grows in, you use 'regular' brush rather than a slicker or rake. Slickers can be a little harsh if you're touching his skin with the needles when you brush.

    Gypsy and Scout are only a week apart in age, but their growth rates were completely different. Until they were about 6 months old, Gypsy looked about 2-3 months younger than Scout. They are both grown now, their legs reach the ground just fine and they're as big as they're supposed to be. Gypsy never had a pretty coat until she was about 6 months old. To me, it looked thin and sparse. Today, it's thick and silky and feels like petting rabbit fur.

    If you have any concern about the health of your Pyr, the best place to ask is your vet, really. There are so many subtle signs if a dog isn't feeling well that no one on an internet forum can see. We're all happy to try to help, but ultimately, if you're still unsure.... CALL THE VET!

  5. #15
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Tsunibear's Avatar

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    Okay so I found your post on facebook and I am going to agree to disagree with some of the advice given there but, since I know you are concerned I will say testing his thyroids isn't necessarily a bad idea but, usually at a young age it isn't an issue. Thyroids tend to become a problem as a dog ages. Also like Kat said if he is on a heartworm medicine you shouldn't have to worry about worms but, if he isn't maybe you should go to the vet to get him onto a heartworm medicine.

    I do feel that weather effects coat blowing, that's not saying that Randy's theory of hormones don't effect that. Reality is the weather effects hormones in everything people, dogs, cats you name it. There is a reason why some animals hibernate in the winter and also a reason why salmon do a egg laying run in the spring. It's because, the weather effects their hormones. Bears will come out of hibernation earlier this year because, it got warmer earlier then regularly. Just like dogs will blow their coats earlier due to their hormones and the weather being warmer.

    As for the food that really is an owners preference. There technically isn't a right or wrong answer to that. It's whatever works for you and for Gandolf.

  6. #16
    Road Dawg no human intentions's Avatar

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    ty so much texaskat you always give great advice! he is not on heartworm meds yet but he will be in about another month when take him to get neutered.

    and tsunibear your quite the detective lol ! yes everyone on the facebook group says the people in this forum dont know what they are talking about lolz. and randy is supposed to be the master expert of all pyr owners that have ever existed and i am supposed to adhere to everything he says ahaha. just cause his mom has supposedly bred a few champion pyrs. i'm not saying he has no idea what he's talking about but everything he's told has not sounded right and he has contradicted himself on several things. all dogs are different and no 1 thing works for all of them.

    i am just going to continue with the fish pills (but 1 per day), i am going to try to get him more motivated about his food by adding a tiny bit of canned food or maybe just a bit of hamburger or bacon greese. other than that i think hes perfectly fine

  7. #17
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Tsunibear's Avatar

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    I am member of the group that is actually how Andrea found me on facebook. Some of the members of the forum are my facebook friends too and I wouldn't have it any other way. I personally would rather come here for advice then anywhere else but, that's my opinion. I don't ever feel belittled here and that is what I love about being here. There isn't a question too stupid to ask here and that I am thankful for.

    There is no right or wrong when it comes to raising a dog. What works for Missy and I might not work for anyone else. There are a lot of different factors to consider I mean in my case Missy isn't purebred so I have to consider some of her qualities and issue to be her other half cause reality is half of her DNA is that of Bernese Mountain Dog.

    Only you, your vet or sometimes even groomer if you see them often enough will be able to tell you if they think there might be something wrong with your dog. Even then only your vet will be able to really know because, that is his job. I learned just that today unfortunately. As groomer I noticed that a regular client of mines dog was a little off so I recommended he take her to the vet and sure enough I was right. The vet said she wasn't doing well and suggested he put her down. I have done nothing but, cry today over it cause even though she wasn't mine. It sure did feel like she was, I mean I saw her every other week so I bonded with her.

    So in the end if you feel that there might be something wrong with Gandolf don't hesitate to call your vet and talk to him about it. He should be willing to talk to you over the phone and tell you whether or not he feels it's an issue or not. If you are concerned about Gandolf's thyroids, worms or pano call your vet and ask. My vet is on my speed dial because, of Monty and his health issues and I wouldn't have it any other way.

    I will stand by my opinion that Gandolf is just going through a awkward stage right now and the coat is from hormones/weather change. What I would recommend is that for at least a week you measure out his food in his bowl at least in the morning and in the evening that way you can monitor how much he is actually eating.

    Just want to add that Missy is 125lbs and she only gets two fish oil capsules a day. It keeps her stool nice and coat nice that way.

  8. #18
    Road Dawg MY GIRL BELLA's Avatar

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    I live in Illinois and it has been warm here. This week in the 80's. My Bella is 4 months old and she is shedding alot! I have cotton balls all over the house. My rake is full as well as my brush each day--I have to clean it several times with her brushing! I am covered in hair when I leave the house as well as when I am there. I do believe that weather has something to do with dogs shedding their coats. For some reason I can't see the pics of Gandolf. I also feed Bella about 6 measured cups of Purina Puppy food a day. With the warm weather she does not eat it all. She gets 2 cups in the Am, 2 cups around 2:30 pm and 2 cups when that is gone. Yesterday is the first day she ate 6 cups but it was a cooler day. Some of the warmer days she only ate 4 cups. My vet told me to feed her puppy food for 1 year. If you think Gandolf might have worms take her stool in for a check. It was a very cheap test. My vet can even do it on site. I agree with Texaskat call the vet if you are concerned. If I am concerned I come on here if I can't find the answer I call the vet to put my mind at ease. Good Luck

  9. #19
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Espinay's Avatar

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    You have been given some good advice on the facebook forum on things you may need to consider. You asked about blowing coat on a 4.5 month (18 week) old puppy - and this is something that is not normally seen in a puppy of that age regardless of the temperature or climate. You asked about it as you were not sure it was normal. They confirmed that it is not common, there may be a reason that your pup is shedding so early, and to investigate further. Is that not why the question was asked?

    It was suggested that you check for worms (noting that you advised your pup did have worms when you got it?). Note that depending on the type of HW medication used, it may not do all worms, so an allwormer preparation may be required. It was suggested that you do a fecal first to see if this is actually the issue.

    It was noted that your pup had grown significanly recently. SEPARATE from the other issues it was suggested that an adult food may be worthwhile. Note that putting pyr pups on large breed food at a early age is something that many long time Pyr breeders recommend. It is also something recommended by author (on issues such as dog structure) and puppy evaluator Pat Hastings who has evaluated thousands of puppies and has worked with the dog food companies. Even large breed puppy foods can be too high in protein etc at times and adult food is recommended to maintain good even slow growth and avoid joint and bone issues.

    Fish oil was recommended. Omega 3 essential fatty acids are good support not only for joints but for hair growth. Commercial dog foods are sadly lacking in these (as they are unstable and damaged by heat, light and air) so adding them in separately can be a good thing. They can help NEW coat grow in in good condition.

    Your pup is lean. I do like a leaner pup than some, but part of him being lean looks to be because of his growth spurt - which was why adult food was recommended - to even out his growth so he doesnt have as many fast growth spurts.

    It was also recommended you get your pups thyroid checked as as was mentioned, coat loss like that in a 18 week pup is not something that is common and does ring a few bells.

    You were given some very sound advice from people who, if there was a 'Who's Who' for the pyrenean world would definitely be listed. They are names that those knowledgeable in the breed will easily recognise. Whether you choose to take any of the advice on board is up to you.
    Espinay Pyrenean Mountain Dogs (Australia) - putting the Breed before breeding

    www.espinay.com

  10. #20
    Puppy (New Member)

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    I have been lurking here occasionally as a visitor only (the site design gives me a headache, I am color sensitive) and also am on some facebook groups and the Pyr-L mail list, and since I only have my 2 goat guards and they are my first, I usually feel I have nothing to contribute. They do their jobs and we keep to ourselves usually. However, I did hear Randy and Debi (I saw part of the exchange on fb and looked around some so I know who you are referring to) speak about Livestock dogs at a conference, have emailed them with some questions and thought they gave me good answers and that they knew about livestock dogs in general and Pyrenees specifically. Because of what some of you said here, I decided to do some research via google and see if I was wrong about them and if you folks were right. They were very easy to find on Google.

    This is what I learned about the parties involved that I could find on line.
    About Randy, I found a mention of him with pyrs and hip displyasia (sp?) back in 1975, he was/is the temperament evaluator for Great Pyrenees Rescue of Northern California and this was posted on the info part of his facebook page:

    "My wife Debi and I raise and show Great Pyrenees dogs as WhiteFire Great Pyrenees and were very heavily involved in rescue for many years. I literally learned how to walk holding onto a Pyr, was raised in a Pyr kennel and as a child/un-paid kennel help, was part of the very first organized Pyr rescue in the country, the rescue committee of the Great Pyrenees Club of California.

    Debi and I stopped counting the number of Pyrs through our place (owned,bred/whelped, fostered, rescued, boarded) at 100 over 10 years ago. To date it is estimated that we have had direct involvement (either personally owning, whelping, fostering, boarding or working with them hands on in GPRNC but not counting my childhood) with somewhere around 3-400 Great Pyrenees (and other LGD's) and via rescue, public events and the show world, have had hands on contact with somewhere around a 5-600 more.

    As part of this, my specialty with Great Pyrenees Rescue of Northern California, of which Debi was the Chair for many years, was handling the "problem" dogs. We have dealt with everything from abuse-neglect trust issues, juvenile behavior, pack aggression, fear-biting to rage syndrome and psychotic behavior.


    In addition I found Debi listed as the former chairperson of the GPRNC and the president of the Great Pyr club in California. I also found mentions of several litters she has whelped, of helping with other litters doing evaluations and whelping and I found her name attached to 5-6 show champions as well. She also has spoken about Livestock Guard dogs at some conferences (one down in Redding where I heard them) along with Randy's mother (who you mentioned in what I thought was a derogatory manner. I didn't get why she was brought into the discussion).

    That lead me to this "mother who has some show champions or something". I was surprised to learn that she is Catherine De La Cruz (who I had heard of from other goat people who had guard dogs, she is how I found Pyr-L) and is considered by many to be an authority on Livestock Guard dogs and Pyrs. From what I found she has had Pyrs since the 70's or before, is or was the National Pyrenees club chair-person on Livestock dogs, helped found rescue on the west coast and has written something like 15-20 articles on Pyrs and other livestock dogs. From what I could find, she also put together the first online library of Pyr related articles and information and also has a website about Livestock guard dogs.

    All of this was pretty easy to find online. I don't know about you all but that sounds like a heck of a lot of background and experience.

    If it were me, I might do some homework on who is giving advice before I start bad mouthing them, but then again, that's just me. You folks do what you want.

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