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  1. #1
    Young Dawg (Member)

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    Question Double Dew Claws Required

    I know that the double dews are a requirement of the AKC breed standard, but if your Pyr lacks the 2nd dew in the back, does that indicate that he is not 100% Pyr?

    I was showing my rescue to a former Pyr breeder and she said he MUST just be mixed-breed because he has only single dews all-around. Not that I care, as I don't show him, can't and wouldn't breed him, and love him for his disposition, not his bloodline.

    I was just bothered by how this breeder's respect for my dog diminished as soon as it became known that he has single rear dews. I guess that as a breeder, naturally she would be most concerned about the integrity of the breed standard, but it still irked me.

    I guess my question is, while single rear dews are a breeding defect, does it mean he cannot be 100% Pry; must a Pry have double dews to be all Pyr?

  2. #2
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) TexasKat's Avatar

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    NO... they don't.

    From the breed standard:

    FAULT: ABSENCE OF DOUBLE DEWCLAWS ON EACH REAR LEG.
    Faults are very different than a "disqualification". Faults are traits not desired in the breed. A disqualification does not even disqualify the dog from being that breed, it disqualifies them from being shown in conformation and they should not be bred. Not having double dews is a fault but isn't an absolute indicator of anything.

    These are also 'faults' but I expect you would't call a Pyr "not-a-Pyr" because his nose wasn't jet black.

    • Too heavy head (st. Bernard or newfoundland-like)
    • Too narrow or small skull
    • Foxy appearance
    • Presence of an apparent stop
    • Missing pigmentation on nose, eye rims, or lips
    • Eyelids round, triangular, loose, or small
    • Overshot, undershot, wry mouth



    http://clubs.akc.org/gpca/gpcaistd.html

    If she doesn't know the difference between a 'fault' and a 'disqualification', then I wouldn't worry about her opinion, she's not that 'qualified' a breeder anyway.

  3. #3
    Young Dawg (Member)

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    Thanks for the info. It wasn't that I'm hung up on having a purebred (my other dog is a mixed breed that no one has been able to sort out) but I didn't appreciate feeling like I was being told that I was misrepresenting something; claiming him to be something he's not, in a dishonest manner.

    I didn't value her opinion all that much as she was one of those (IMO) trashy BYB who (IMO) thought that having two unaltered dogs of the opposite *** was qualification enough to become a breeder. My first clue? "Man, I used to get $XXX for those puppies! They were so cute, they were gone like 'that'!" So sad. Thankfully we have a great rescue org down here to help place these wonderful dogs after the novelty wears off.

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    Old Dawg (Senior Member) TexasKat's Avatar

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    That is sad.... and she's a fool.

    I hate people who breed scores of puppy for the cash. If you see her next time, ask her if her contracts include a stipulation that if a puppy doesn't work out, that she'll take the Pyr back. I think I already know her answer.

    BTW, we require pics of your furbabies!

  5. #5
    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Tsunibear's Avatar

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    I have worked on plenty of purebred dogs that hand single dewclaws. Some people just like to act like they know it all.

    I have a mutt personally who was born with double dews but, the breeder removed them due to her being a mutt just like she strongly recommended spaying her again due to be a mutt. Only thing I really didn't listen to is the time frame to spay her, she recommended spaying her at a year and half that way she had at least one heat to help her growth palates and I got her spayed younger because, I had an unaltered male shar-pei who I wasn't sure could live through the anesthetics so I didn't listen to that one thing.

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    Old Dawg (Senior Member)

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    Oh no! I guess I have to tell Tank he isn't a perfect pyr. haha He has a tiny bit of the corner of his one eye that is missing the black pigmentation. He will be so disappointed

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    Old Dawg (Senior Member) TexasKat's Avatar

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    Hehe Tank!

    Scout's nose (in certain lights) isn't jet black. I think I won't tell him that he's not a 'real' Pyr though. I haven't the courage.

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    Old Dawg (Senior Member) Jewel's Avatar

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    Lack of double dewclaws can be an indication that the dog is not a purebred, but it is not proof that the dog isn't a purebred. The lack of double dewlcaws is a serious fault and a good breeder who cares about the integrity of the breed would not likely breed dogs who are missing the dewclaws. That said, the lack of double dewclaws is neither here nor there for a pet pyr that is not shown and will never be bred. I have heard similar stories a few times over the years from fellow pyr owners. I distinctly remember meeting a lady at the dog park with a male pyr and she told me that she was talking to someone at the park one day about her dog, and then when the person realized that her dog didn't have two perfect sets of double dewclaws, the person lost all interest in talking to her. Huh ? Seriously, the lady said that person literally just walked off mid-conversation and wanted nothing more to do with her or her dog. Some people are ridiculous, I don't know how else to describe them otherwise.

  9. #9
    Old Dawg (Senior Member)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Banttari View Post
    I know that the double dews are a requirement of the AKC breed standard, but if your Pyr lacks the 2nd dew in the back, does that indicate that he is not 100% Pyr?

    I was showing my rescue to a former Pyr breeder and she said he MUST just be mixed-breed because he has only single dews all-around. Not that I care, as I don't show him, can't and wouldn't breed him, and love him for his disposition, not his bloodline.

    I was just bothered by how this breeder's respect for my dog diminished as soon as it became known that he has single rear dews. I guess that as a breeder, naturally she would be most concerned about the integrity of the breed standard, but it still irked me.

    I guess my question is, while single rear dews are a breeding defect, does it mean he cannot be 100% Pry; must a Pry have double dews to be all Pyr?
    As was mentioned earlier, the lack of the double dew claw is not proof of a mixed breed, but just a non-conformational characteristic/trait. There are a lot of recessive-type traits that pop up all of the time in dogs of all different breeds, but it doesn't necessarily make that dog a mixed breed. That type of response is just ignorance on the breeder's part.

  10. #10
    Young Dawg (Member)

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    Thanks everyone for the answers!

    Pictures required?

    Here's a link to some I've got up on Facebook

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