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redneckdan
12-21-2012, 08:38 AM
Hi All!

My wife and I will be bringing home our pyr pup next weekend! We've both spent a lot of time lurking here to learn about how to care for a pyr. My wife wanted a pyr based on experience she had with them a young girl. Through research she won me over. We want a dog that is protective of family/livestock while not being overly aggressive.

My wife and I are still figuring out a name for him, we're down to about 3 choices.

Here he is at the breeders at roughly 7 weeks.

http://www.greatpyr.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=285&pictureid=1730

He is not chewing on the chair, he seems to like having his head propped up while he watches the world go by.

Same spot at nap time.

http://www.greatpyr.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=285&pictureid=1731

This weekend's project is puppy proofing the house! :D

Tsunibear
12-21-2012, 09:04 AM
Welcome to the forum and to being owned by a Pyr. He is adorable by the way. I can't wait to see more pictures and hear stories about him.

nick's spirit
12-21-2012, 09:37 AM
Welcome redneckdan & new pup!!
We just got our new guy, Rudy, on 12/12. He is 11 weeks old today, weighs in at about 23-24 pounds now. It appears that he was doing well on his house training...but we've had a set back in the last couple of days. Sigh, back to square one!
I decided not to puppy proof the house, tree & ornaments are still up & even in one piece! Even tho he did try one out to see how it would taste!
Pulled over some Nutcrackers, but in his defense, they are sitting on a lace runner that is just right for pulling...after the scare of them falling & me scolding, he has not touched it again. He is beginning to know his name & knowing the "ach Rudy no" loud clap command (if you can call it that)
I expect one day he'll ignore me, but we'll tackle that when we come to it.
He is actually walking better on his leash & is faster than my 12 y/o Aussie!
He still has a tendancy to want to stop & lay down, but I try not to give him the opportunity. He does know where the house is & wants to stop when we walk near it, which is another part of the lesson I want him to learn.
Thanks for the photos of your new boy, we'll look forward to hearing more about him as he grows!

Nancy & Holly

Maggie's mom
12-21-2012, 04:15 PM
Welcome redneckdan and your precious pup!! OMG...y'all are killing me! Your puppy is absolutely adorable, and I'm a total sucker for a puppy. I'm at my legal limit of 3...but if I could find one as cute as your little guy, I'd break the law in a NY second. Have fun with your fluffy ball of fun! I look forward to the torture of many pictures! :D

nick's spirit
12-21-2012, 05:14 PM
Maggies Mom
you know they make them cute so you don't want to kill them when they totally exasperate you!!

Davey Benson
12-21-2012, 06:17 PM
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-forum/welcome.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

Those two poses reminde me of my female pyr. She is very relaxed and likes to lounge like that. If your boy is anything like my girl.... you will love him. :D (and if he's a little like my boy... you might want to trade him in for a girl :eek: )

Minty
12-23-2012, 01:46 AM
I too am new having just purchased 2 puppies, a brother and sister on advice from friends who have used these to keep away the coyotes. I have been a foster mom for catahoulas, and raised them as well as terriers and labs. these are an entirely new breed for me. I need them for the farm to keep the Coyotes from killing my fowl and new born miniature cows. I have to keep my catahoulas and terriers in an electrified fenced area to keep them from being eaten by the coyotes who are very bold here and try to lure them to them. The GP's are to live in the barns with the livestock. I currently have them in the garage with a portable kennel outside the garage door in the yard for extended periods of fresh air. After purschase (last Friday) i found thier real age and feel they were to young to leave their mother at 5 1/2 weeks old. However they are eating well, (canned puppy food mixed with large breed puppy food), and seem to be catching on quick to go out to pottie rather than in the crate. ( exept the boy dog likes to sneak behind my car in the garage to poop). They were living in a garage with thier mother and chickens when i got them so hopefully they will be good with chickens.

I need advice on the best time to spay and neuter them. My vet has always been a proponent of very early neutering, but was reading that with these dogs it may be better to wait longer to get full growth. Is that so?

i was thinking of transitioning them to a coyote proof chicken house when they are older but not sure of at what age that should be, to help them trasition from the house to being farm dogs. Would this be a good idea and when should that be? From there would then put them with the cows who feed in the hay barn in which the chicken house is attached when they are big enough to handle the coyotes?

its hard to believe these little puff balls will grow up to be big protectors. Also still need to find names for them.

Terry
12-23-2012, 04:31 AM
Its gonna take alot longer than a weekend Dan :D

Minty..

We had both Murphy and Emma fixed at 6 months and everything went fine. We lost Murphy at 2 years for other medical reasons.... Emma has always had a problem getting up on the bike :o

Terry


http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae243/loon20009/DSC08736.jpg

kimierose
12-23-2012, 04:43 AM
I had my Bella spayed at 4 months and she did fine and as for growing to fast after she hasnt she is now 9 months and weighs 95 pounds not sure how tall she is havent measured her in awhile.I guess it just depends on what age you feel confortable with having them spayed.

Davey Benson
12-23-2012, 07:00 AM
Welcome too Minty. Don't worry too much about transitioining. I kept my two close to me for the first year and a half, they were in and out of the house, around the other dogs, and saw very little of my poultry. When I started getting in the little flocks for them to guard, (sheep and goats) they took to them like they were born to be livestock guardians. I never once worried about them hurting the goats and sheep.

I'm glad you got a couple littermates, they will get along really well together, and because they were pulled from their dam so early, they will help each other with the socialization.

I never heard of a catahoula so I had to google them. (I honestly thought it was a chicken at first. :o ) Your pyrs won't be anything mentally like your other dogs, they won't interact with them like they do with each other. It will be like you have a completly different species of animal on your farm. And they will roam many miles without some sort of physical barrier. Just telling them where your property lines stop doesnt seem to mean much to them. and they don't take instruction like a terrier does either. But if you are looking for a livestock guard dog.... you couldn't have picked much better. I tell everyone when they see my two pyrs that I sleep very well at night. (very well!)

Minty
12-23-2012, 10:48 AM
thank you for commenting and giving advice. these dogs ARE VERY different from Catahoulas. All of my other dogs are neutered as soon as the vet will do it. I believe in keeping the dog population down, and not everone is good at breeding puppies. I still have some resentment at the breeder of these pups selling the dogs so soon. I think pups should be with mom to 12 weeks with 8 weeks being the soonest to wean if there are some kind of circumstances. That being said am glad I got the 2 litter mates but I did it because they would not be living with the catahoulas and terriers and didn't want to put a dog out in the barn with no one to socialize with. Not ever having seen GP pups before did not recognize how young they were.

I live in the middle of no where, way way back off the road with no neighbors, surrounded by pastures and cows. So they can roam over a few hundered acres and no one should be bothered. One of the reasons my friends wanted me to get these dogs was not only for the livestock but since i am so remote to protect me. The hope however is that they bond to my chickens and little dexter cows and stick somewhat close to the place.

The female pup seems to be the adventurer while the male wants to stay with me and get lovies. The female is the larger of the 2 eats the most - at feeding time she eats and he would rather wrap his paws around my legs and get attention than eat that much. am having to feed him separatley and where he cannot see me to get his full attention on his food. She is also dominant doing the flip him on his back and growl in dominance thing frequently when they play.

Again thanks for the advice.

Davey Benson
12-23-2012, 12:05 PM
...I live in the middle of no where, way way back off the road with no neighbors, surrounded by pastures and cows. So they can roam over a few hundered acres and no one should be bothered. ...

How far away are your closest neighbors? six or seven miles? They will probabaly drop by for a visit sometime. (I mean your dogs over to their house, not vise versa) My farm is about 800 acres, and it's not enough to keep them home. Just sayin. :) I highly recomend phone number on them, and introductions of them to your neighbors so they can give ya a ring when they see them making the rounds. ;)

redneckdan
12-27-2012, 01:04 PM
My wife and I got a lot of puppy proofing done. My parents visited over the weekend with their german short hair, who pointed out a few spots we missed. We plan to pick up our pyr pup this saturday morning! :D

This is Mystic, part of the angora rabbit flock my wife adopted this fall. They were 4H animals who were 'out grown' and needed a good home...thats the reason for the 3/4" long toe nails my wife is trying to trim back.

http://www.greatpyr.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=285&pictureid=1732

They weren't abused but they definitely needed some TLC. We hope to start a chicken coop this spring, so having a pyr around in the future will definitely be an asset. Our neighborhood has everything from wolves to weasels.

Tsunibear
12-27-2012, 06:38 PM
I swear bunny nails grow so fast. I am always trimming Stew's nails, thankfully they are easy to trim.

Terry
12-27-2012, 10:34 PM
Who the heck is Stew bear? :eek: :D

Chicag0_Red
12-28-2012, 01:19 AM
She is also dominant doing the flip him on his back and growl in dominance thing frequently when they play.


While the female may very well end up being the "more overbearing" of the 2; Pyrs really don't do dominance like that . What you are describing is typical "Pyr Play". It is one of the reasons we recommend against using the "classic" dominance thing in training Pyrs. That is how they play and one of these days they will think it is their turn to be on top.

Tsunibear
12-28-2012, 08:54 AM
Who the heck is Stew bear? :eek: :D

Stew is my inappropriately named rabbit that Missy and I saw on a walk and I went to catch and Missy let him run right underneath her and so he escaped. Then two days later I find on my front porch sleeping with my sister's cat. So after my failed attempt to catch him I decided that whenever I saw him walking the block I would called him Rabbit Stew cause the loose dogs are bound to catch him. The sad part is he was a show bunny and there are about ten more running loose around here that you can't get near anymore.

TexasKat
12-28-2012, 10:50 AM
_Red is right. Behavior in play says almost nothing about non-play Pyr behavior. Throwing an adult Pyr to the ground (even if you could manage it safely) is more like a game than any serious 'dominance' thing. Pyrs don't do 'dominance' like that anyway -- all you would wind up with is a Pyr that thinks you're crazy.

My 2 (same age, not related, one male and one female) play harder than most dogs fight. To this day, I couldn't tell you which one is 'dominant' and which is 'submissive'. (Personally I don't believe they think that way -- they certainly don't ACT that way). One or the other seems to 'take charge' depending on the circumstances and the 'role' they've assigned themselves in the 'team'. It changes depending on the circumstances and their own inclinations and perceived strengths.

Gypsy always eats dinner first, but Scout gets his choice of which 'treat pile' he prefers. Scout usually 'alerts' first, but Gypsy may or may not bark at the same time. If Gypsy barks, Scout ALWAYS joins in as her backup. Sometimes Gypsy is the play initiator, sometimes Scout is. Sometimes Scout throws Gypsy to the ground, sometimes Gypsy winds up on top. It's not a dominance thing, it's training. They're learning how to fight off predators by practicing on each other.

Dogs in general, and Pyrs in particular follow a much less 'hierarchical' structure during play than humans might think. In fact, adult Pyrs often wind up on the bottom when playing with puppies. It's all in good fun.

Pyrs don't play or behave like typical 'dogs'. They establish their own relationships/team and guardian roles without much 'help' from us. They go 'on' and 'off' duty on their own schedule. They even seem to 'debrief' each other at the end of their 'shift'. It's really fascinating to watch.

Same gender Pyrs who are working together are much more likely to fight over hierarchy than cross-gender pairs. In fact, sometimes to severe injury or death. So it's great that you've got a male and female. They're often called a 'bonded pair' even if they've never had offspring.

Jewel
12-28-2012, 01:03 PM
It is not unusual with male/female pairs that the female is in charge - isn't that as it should be :D;)

My two have very different personalities. Bijou is very confident and assertive, while Bro is less secure and more nervous reactive. At home, she lets Bro get away with everything. But I've witnessed her grind a 120 lb (Bijou's only 75 lbs) male rhodesian ridgeback down to the ground at the dog park when he attempted to mount her (that's her absolute and only no-no rule at the dog park), but Bro can do what he pleases, mount her, push her down, bite her and she'd handle all that in play and good humor. Thus how dogs behave at home with their own family pack is not always indicative of how they handle/react to real world threats.

Here are my two playing a few days ago. Here is Bro trying to eat Bijou's head, but finding it to big to swallow, he tried to eat her leg instead...
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad98/jewelpyr/BroBroCopy.jpg

Here is Bijou turning the tables and flipping Bro down...
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad98/jewelpyr/BijouBijouCopy.jpg

Davey Benson
12-28-2012, 05:29 PM
love those pictures. :D never ceases to amaze me how many hours of play each day pyrs require of each other. :cool:

Minty
12-29-2012, 04:55 PM
I see what you mean about Pyr Play, now the male is pushing the female down and rolling her over and growling. and do they ever play. I also plan to micro chip as well as putting collars on with my number. the few folks that do live around me are dog lovers, and as long as they don't bark all day, and keep the cop up down the road that works nights it will be good. ( my catahoula already tried that)

If they range so far, do you fear they will go into a road and get hit? Just this week on the way to work there was a Pry walk out in the road and stop to stare at me. Of course I stopped and when he got a good look at me he moved out of the way. But if they cannot be loose in the field with the livestock then they can't do their job?

Jewel
12-29-2012, 10:39 PM
Minty, you should probably read the book Livestock Protection Dogs. You can see a description in the Book Store section on this site.

MiyasMomma
12-29-2012, 10:53 PM
I am also new to the forum. I got my puppy 12/8/12. I have had her 3 weeks and adore her! Yes she has her Pyr quirks, I have had Golden Retriever's in the past, but she is so sweet and loving.

Good luck and post lots of picks of him and let us know his name!

peg
12-30-2012, 06:45 AM
First time I saw my two "playing" I thought they would kill each other. This is a daily activity-in the house, in the yard, on the dog bed... :D

Chicag0_Red
12-30-2012, 04:52 PM
I see what you mean about Pyr Play, now the male is pushing the female down and rolling her over and growling. and do they ever play. I also plan to micro chip as well as putting collars on with my number. the few folks that do live around me are dog lovers, and as long as they don't bark all day, and keep the cop up down the road that works nights it will be good. ( my catahoula already tried that)

If they range so far, do you fear they will go into a road and get hit? Just this week on the way to work there was a Pry walk out in the road and stop to stare at me. Of course I stopped and when he got a good look at me he moved out of the way. But if they cannot be loose in the field with the livestock then they can't do their job?

They will probably be keeping the same schedule as the "cop down the road" as they generally tend to be much more vocal and active at night since that is when the predators they naturally guard against are the most active.

As for the ranging far and wide ... Pyrs have to have some living thing to guard the best way to keep a Pyr at home is to confine what he thinks is his to guard. Yes going into the road and getting struck by a vehicle is a big risk with these guys that is one of the reasons normally they are started out with older more experienced LGDs. I have seen the same Pyr that could not be contained by a 7 foot enclosure willingly stay inside a 3 strand barbed wire fence because his charges stayed there.

Minty
12-31-2012, 10:01 AM
I will definately get the book when I get home - am with my mother in Michigan while the pups are staying with my friend that has thier litter mate. she and i are both impressed at how smart they are at such a young age. The three are really doing some powerful Pyr play.

Do you suggest or does anyone here use one of those GPS collars? Does anyone tatoo?

I also worry about theft, as i had a very valuable, Don Abney, professionally trained Catahoula stolen a few years ago. My friends adult Pyr was aloof, and doubt a stranger could get him in thier car. Is it wise to teach them to like going in the car? Have always used treats and drives in the country to teach the dogs to ride well for trips to the vet, and have fears about trying to load a 100 lb dog to go to the vet who doesn't want to get in the car. But on the other hand would not want to see them stolen.

TexasKat
12-31-2012, 02:11 PM
I' be really surprised if a stranger can get close enough to your Pyr to try to drag him into a car. Since Pyrs don't respond to 'come here' well, they'd have to get a catch-pole on him and drag an animal capable of killing wolves and driving off bears into a vehicle. It's possible I guess for a thief to dart him with a tranquilizer, THEN do something like that, but that would (I'm guessing) be an extreme case.

A GPS collar can be removed by a thief but I see value in them for keeping track of a Pyr over your own large property. You might consider a microchip.

By all means, teach your Pyr to get into a car when he's young. Nothing like needing to go to the vet and trying to drag an animal capable of .... (see above)

Chicag0_Red
12-31-2012, 08:27 PM
I' be really surprised if a stranger can get close enough to your Pyr to try to drag him into a car. Since Pyrs don't respond to 'come here' well, they'd have to get a catch-pole on him and drag an animal capable of killing wolves and driving off bears into a vehicle. It's possible I guess for a thief to dart him with a tranquilizer, THEN do something like that, but that would (I'm guessing) be an extreme case.

A GPS collar can be removed by a thief but I see value in them for keeping track of a Pyr over your own large property. You might consider a microchip.

By all means, teach your Pyr to get into a car when he's young. Nothing like needing to go to the vet and trying to drag an animal capable of .... (see above)

Yeah ... what she said ... seriously even if it is going to be a total outside/barn/pasture/paddock working LGD Pyr, I recommend both crate training at a young age and teaching them to load up and ride. For those rare occasions when they may have to be confined for medical or other emergency reasons as well as to insure the least amount of stress when they need to be transported.

kimierose
12-31-2012, 09:30 PM
My Bella loves to ride lives for it. Seriously I am so glad she does her dad and mom neither of them will get into a car or truck.When they need their shots or get sick the vet has to come to them. Her dad weighs in at 150 and his person only weighs 180 so no getting him to the truck.Not to mention how much more expensive it is to have the vet come to you.And it nice having her crate trained also.

redneckdan
01-09-2013, 11:17 AM
Hi All!

Our pyr pup is doing well! We decided to name him Sendoa ('strong' in Basque); we call him Sven for short...since we live in Minnesota. :D

Sven is about 50/50 on house training. He shows absolutely no signs of food or toy agression. Walks are kind of interesting since he insists on walking behind me. He tends to follow me most often so my wife Jen will hold the leash, sven walks in the middle and I lead. This is on forest trails so he may act differently on city side walks. He is starting to show a bit of guarding behavior. After dark he will go lay down and block the front door. So far his ownly fear is plastic bags, shaking out a new trash bag sends him running.

Jen takes him into town for her twice a week grociery/laundrey run. He hangs out in a wicker pack basket at the laundry mat and sleeps in the truck while Jen shops. He is super friendly to everyone who stops to pet him.

So far the only issues we had was the first night he howled pretty much the whole night. He was pretty hoarse come morning! Each night after that he got quieter. Now he will whine a bit at bed time when he goes in his crate then goes to sleep. At 5am though he is raring to go, i play with him for a few minutes before going to work but then have to stuff him back in the crate which doesn't go over very well.

MiyasMomma
01-10-2013, 11:19 AM
redneckdan,
I love that name! It is perfect for Minnesota.

House training went fast for me, I used the bells on the door handle and she loves to ring them!! She has an accident once in awhile, but most times its my fault because I think she's just wanting to play!

I think the crate thing will work out fine. We do the same thing with Miya...let her out when my husband gets up early and let her go potty and put her back until I get up...which is usually only an hour because she starts to whine. She only whined for 5 min. her first night and took right to her crate. Maybe because its in the bedroom with us and she is on my side so she can see me. She doesn't feel alone. the latest she has slept is 7:30, but she really slows down in the evening which is nice.

I guess I should get busy taking her for rides...she's only been to the vet. That's bad!

so happy for you! Don't forget to post us some pictures!