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hiddenhollowgirl
01-05-2006, 08:04 AM
Hi! I am new to this forum. We adopted a 2 year old Pyr last year. She is very sweet in temprament and quite well behaved. We also have 3 other dogs. She was not well liked by them, at first, but she behaved well. Our male Rat Terrier was the first to play with her and they have been fast friends. Our male Shepard mix came around and has been playing with her, also. Our female Spaniel mix never has liked her, and groweld at her often, until, after several months of this, the Pyr (Diamond) stood on her until she became submissive, and we have had few problems since, with her. About 2 months ago, Diamond started attacking the Rat Terrier, her best friend. I know now that it is a dominance thing, as the Rat Terrier will not submit to her, even though he is small. I don't know what happened between them. It has made our happy household very tense. We have to keep them seperated or watch them closely. Diamond is quite obedient and non-aggressive with people. She will come when called, even if she is aways from the house. She is very affectionate, and really wants to please us. All the dogs come into the house, and sleep in our bedroom. Is there something we can to to stop this fighting? We do hold her by the collar and growel at her when she pounces on the Rat Terrier. They try to stay away from each other, most of the time, but agressive moments come every few days. I have ordered training programs, but they do not really discuss this problem. Thanks!!

risestar
01-06-2006, 02:25 AM
Your problem is not uncommon. Introducing a new dog has upset the existing pack structure and there is now a power struggle for the Alpha position

The Pyr, being a commanding and naturally dominant breed, will usually assume the dominant role, which your terrier had once had and does not want to let go.

Usually a smaller dog will submit to the Pyr. If it does not, then unfortunately the only thing to do will be to keep them seperated as the problem will continue to exist until one of them has made the other submit. which no doubt would result in them getting chewed up a fair bit.

hiddenhollowgirl
01-09-2006, 10:52 AM
Thanks, Risestar! We are trying to work thru this problem. Diamond wants so much to please us, she is trying to stay away from our Rat Terrier (Wishbone). We have a dog door to a fenced yard from our house. We are practicing letting the dogs be together in this large indoor, outdoor area. There has been no blood, yet! Their play must have turned into real fighting over the last 10 months. Do you think we should just let them work it out, and not intervene when they fight? Maybe they only fight when we are around? Diamond is so sweet and gentle, most of the time. She loves our 9 cats! We give her LOTS of love and attention and reward her for her good behavior. It is hard to keep our hands off of her fluffy, white coat! She even smells good! We adore her, and hope that this problem is resolved, somehow. I hope to post some photos soon. Thanks again!! DONNA

Nookie
01-09-2006, 05:16 PM
Thats hard to say, it depends, most Pyrs will settle differences very quickly with a small dog, generally by pinning it down and making the other dog submit. Once that happens, its generally the end of the hostility as the pyr will have won the battle for dominance. This is usually done with no blood , just drool on each others coats. Some pyrs when confronted with an agressive smaller dog will simply lay on the other dog, pinning it down with its weight until the smaller dog gives in.

If the fight is prolonged however, I would break it up before the terrier gets injured. Any sign of blood, break it up.

As a general rule, its fairly uncommon for a male and female to fight for prolonged periods.

Are the dogs all fixed? If one or both are not, having them altered can also help.

Be aware that there can be jealousy issues for your attention especially if you pay attention to one but not the other, for best results take for for walks together, feed them at the same time and such so that one does not get jealous of the other.




Thanks, Risestar! We are trying to work thru this problem. Diamond wants so much to please us, she is trying to stay away from our Rat Terrier (Wishbone). We have a dog door to a fenced yard from our house. We are practicing letting the dogs be together in this large indoor, outdoor area. There has been no blood, yet! Their play must have turned into real fighting over the last 10 months. Do you think we should just let them work it out, and not intervene when they fight? Maybe they only fight when we are around? Diamond is so sweet and gentle, most of the time. She loves our 9 cats! We give her LOTS of love and attention and reward her for her good behavior. It is hard to keep our hands off of her fluffy, white coat! She even smells good! We adore her, and hope that this problem is resolved, somehow. I hope to post some photos soon. Thanks again!! DONNA

hiddenhollowgirl
01-10-2006, 07:15 AM
Hi again! Yes, ALL of our animals are neutered. The odd thing is, Diamond and Wishbone were best friends for 9 months. The problem is that Wishbone will NOT give in to Diamond. She gets on top of him and growels and barks, but does not seem to really hurt him. It sounds awful, though!! Wishbone has never been the alpha dog in the group, eithor. He just won't submit to her. He acts afraid of her, but if she fights with him, he won't give up. He is a real tough guy! It makes life difficult to not be able to leave them alone together anymore...They do not seem to fight over food or treats, though.
Hope everyone is having fun with their Pyr's! Diamond is the most beautiful dog I have ever seen!! Yummy! DONNA

risestar
01-10-2006, 04:42 PM
If you mean that they sound like they are fighting, but one is lying on top of another, that is a type of play and is normal. If you have a close look while they are doing it, you will notice that their jowels are pulled back so as not to injure one another. This is a type of canine role playing that many Pyr's do when maturing. Its normal and they outgrow it. Sometimes they will role play and take turns playing the dominant dog.

You can tell whether its a play by the way they act when its over, if they act normal or playful, then its a game, if one acts sheepish or another acts dominant, then chances are it was a real skirmish

Ours used to do this all the time with our other male and my brother in laws newfie. 10 seconds after, they were running around chasing each other.

You will know a real fight when you see it, there will be lots of noise, they will be drooling on one another and their teeth will be locked on one another and likely rolling around trying to make the other dog submit.

Your issue sounds like normal Pyrenean play though :) They like to play rough, thats how they hone their natural instincts and fighting ability so they can effectively ward off predators. Sort of like sparring with one another


Hi again! Yes, ALL of our animals are neutered. The odd thing is, Diamond and Wishbone were best friends for 9 months. The problem is that Wishbone will NOT give in to Diamond. She gets on top of him and growels and barks, but does not seem to really hurt him. It sounds awful, though!! Wishbone has never been the alpha dog in the group, eithor. He just won't submit to her. He acts afraid of her, but if she fights with him, he won't give up. He is a real tough guy! It makes life difficult to not be able to leave them alone together anymore...They do not seem to fight over food or treats, though.
Hope everyone is having fun with their Pyr's! Diamond is the most beautiful dog I have ever seen!! Yummy! DONNA

Pyr-intrested
01-18-2006, 02:45 PM
Risestar said that Pyrs like to play rough. Does that have any effect on their temperment? It doesn't make them mean, does it?

risestar
01-18-2006, 09:40 PM
HI!

No, not generally. By playing rough, I mean roughhousing, wrestling, role playing etc. This help them hone their natural instincts , which is warding off predators and things that dont belong there. A Pyr with no experience in such play would
be at an immediate disadvantage if threatened by a wolf for example.

Their play differs from some from other breeds that prefer to chase one another, play with sticks and toys and such

angel907
01-20-2006, 08:56 PM
I'd like to hear more about this, are you saying the growling is a type of play? Do they do this with there human owners if they are the only pet in the house? I am looking to get a female in the spring, have never owned a pyr and wanting to learn all I can. I'd also like to hear more about your first female pyr that is aggressive at times(I picked that up from another list) I really do want to hear about how is the best way to interact with a new puppy and deal with these aggression issues before they start. How old was your female when she showed aggressive signs? Thanks in advance

risestar
01-21-2006, 12:29 AM
Depends on the type of growling. Canines social hiarchy is more complex than many people realize. This is dog-dog interaction I am talking about. Dog-human interaction is totally different and growling at a human is an aggressive act and should never be accepted.

With other dogs though, some types of growling is indeed playful, others are dominant in nature and then of course theres the aggressive growling.

Indeed though many do growl during play. One dog will usually initiate the play, giving the other dog body language that it understands to mean it wants to play. A classic example is the front end drop where the dog will drop its front end to a crouch very quickly. They are a lot like 10 year kids playing, they will run around, chase one another, tackle each other, play tag and play wrestling and role playing games with each other.

My female for example, is about as dominant as they come. Very dog aggressive with strange dogs, would make a good livestock guardian. With humans though, totally different, no aggression unless directly challenged.

This is because the ground rules were set at 8 weeks, I had one growl from her at this age when nearing her food. I established dominance by placing here upside down and gently pinning her to the ground until she gave in and relaxed. Never had a problem after that.

Once in a while, very rarely when out on a walk, she will see someone that looks very strange, such as someone wearing odd clothing or a costume, she will recognize that "somethings not right about this" and bark once and press her nose to the person to check them out . Once she determines them to be human, she loses all interest and moves on. I am told this is known as the Pyrenees Charge and is rare except in the most dominant of dogs. None of the others do this.

In the yard, she is a excellent WATCH dog. Not a GUARD dog. The difference is that a watch dog announces a strangers presense but is not overly aggressive towards them. A guard dog is like a rottweiler or doberman that will get aggressive with people. This is a big liability which is the reason I chose the great Pyrenees. Of all the livestock guardian breeds, they are the least likely to get aggressive with people. Other LGD breeds, like the Kormondor for example have human aggression issues with strangers. When in the yard, ours bark a lot at the stranger, but once in the yard the tail starts wagging and she will most times approach for a pet. Our male is more aloof and will bark but won't approach until he knows I know that they are there.

The female is aggressive with strange dogs, if allowed she would either chase it off or pin it down and make it submit. Her preference is thsat the other dog take its leave immediately. If it does not, she will wrestle it to the ground and make it clear that she is the boss and thats all there is to it and it would be in his best interest to leave. Many Pyrs are, however most as a rule will be less aggressive and not take action unless the other dog initiates an aggressive action. This depends on the pup and its personality as well as its upbringing. For example my male learned a lot from here and is more dog aggressive then he would have been if he had not learned it from her. He is bigger and acts as the alpha most times, but of he gets out of line, shes quick to correct him. For example, he needs her permission to bark at another dog or she will correct his behavior with a couple good nips.

When working in the field, it is fairly common to have a very aggressive dog paired up with a less aggressive one. The aggressive one will be the one on partol around the perimeter of the field or land and the other will be amongst the flock keeping a careful eye on them. The more aggressive one is the first line of defense and aggressively repels any intruding predator without question. The other one will assist when a confrontation occurs.

We have some great and useful information, visit our training page here http://www.greatpyr.com/great_pyrenees_training.php
and scroll down to rules for proper control. This gives you a run down on how to get things heading in the right direction

hiddenhollowgirl
01-27-2006, 07:33 AM
Hi all....just thought I would let you know that things have settled down a bit at our house. Diamond and Wishbone pretty much stay away from each other and their close contact is guarded. If Diamond growels at him, I just say NO and she stops and walks away. I give her lots of praise for being nice. Diamond is happy staying outside most of the time, while our 3 other dogs are lazy rug potatoes. They all sleep in our bedroom at night and there have been no incidents there, but very guarded looks! I am going to try to post a picture of Diamond. Hope everyone is having happpy times with their dogs! DONNA