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View Full Version : Is my one year old great pyr puppy growing OK?



Ermin
02-17-2009, 05:02 PM
Hello everyone. My puppy is one year and one month old and he weighs barely 80lb. His growth curve is attached to this thread. Looking at genetics; his dad is 135 lb at 3 year and his mom is 115-120lb and she is little bit younger then his dad. I have been feeding my puppy many different foods trying to find out what he liked the best. I thought he was a picky eater until I figured out that he likes to eat only once a day and usually late at night. Now that I feed him only once a day, he eats about 4 cups of his kibble. When he was young, I fed him IAMS for a few months then I switched it to Eukanuba, then Taste of Wild, then Blue Buffalo, Orijen, Honest Kitchen, Blue Baffalo again, Orijen again, Natures Variety Raw Diet, Instinct, Orijen and now Innova EVO Red Meat. As you can see many different premium foods just to please the little guy. Now that he started eating, I decided to feed him Orijen but Orijen is not available where I live so I decided to finally stick with Innova EVO Red Meat and not switch any more foods. Anyways, he is a very very good looking and athletic great pyr, coat is excellent..he always gets looks when I take him to Pet Smart. The only thing that bothers me is that he might not grow up to be as big as his dad who is 135lb. He has been growing really slowly for the past 5 months and hasn't moved much from 75lb..that worries me. If any of you know, is this normal for great pyrs? Thank you.

Erika
02-17-2009, 06:10 PM
We have Greta 17 months old she weighs about 98 lbs , shes tall and lanky right now.But starting to fill out...then theres Gandolph , hes 9 months old as tall as Greta and already 91 lbs.I guess they all vary.....the experts will chime in Im sure........he sounds beautiful got pics

Ermin
02-17-2009, 11:37 PM
Here are pics of my Pyr..His name is Pasha.

vin63
02-18-2009, 07:57 PM
Personally, I would like to see that curve a little flatter and not so steep. We've had Newfies, Berners, Pyrs and everything in between, and some of them did not completely fill out until around 3 years. In my experience, the faster they grow in the first year, the more joint and tendon problems they develop when they're older. I wouldn't worry too much about his weight right now...if it were me, I would just make sure he's healthy and happy. If you are planning on showing him, I would be more concerned with confirmation than weight. Good luck and he's a nice looking Pyr.

fluffylove
02-19-2009, 11:08 AM
Don't worry about it. People often look at the parents and expect their dogs to be the same. Genetics does not work that way. I've seen some tiny bitches produce massive dogs and vice versa. Your dog is fine, bigger is NOT better when it comes to pyrs. Both your dog's parents are almost too big for the breed and my guess is they are very steep shouldered. Breeders often sacrafice shoulder and length of stride for height which is wrong but judges reward it. So in short don't worry, I've seen French pyrs sprout up at 2 yrs again, (steep shouldered though). Your dog looks fine. Relax. Even dogs of the same litter are very different in soundness, temperment and size.

Ermin
02-19-2009, 04:32 PM
Erika, vin63 and fluffylove..thank you all for responding to my thread. I didn't think anyone would. I appreciate your input. I never owned a dog before so Pasha is my first. I try to do everything I can to give him the best nutrition and keep him fit by walking him every day. To refer to vin63 comment; I am not an expert but Pasha seems to have a healthy composure and he is very happy and athletic..at least that's my opinion. He can run like a wind. Ever since he was little, I watched out not too put too much strain on his joints by walking him on grassy areas and hiking trails rather then pavement. As a supplement, I give him 1tbs of fish liver oil from Norwegian cod. I also give him only distilled water to avoid intake of fluoride and chloride that is bad for both dogs and us too. I feed him $70/30lb bag kibble (Innova Evo Red Meat)...I did extensive research on dog foods and I am pretty confident that Orijen and Innova are the best ones out there. He is also on Banfield Health Plan and they make sure to keep him in check with all his vaccinations and exams. So I am doing pretty much everything I can..I know his is happy and healthy so as your said, that is the most important right now. I would like him to get big, but if he does not..I would love him for what he is. The fact that he still has 1-2 years to grow gives me some hope that he will pick up in size. What got me worried is that he wouldnt move from 75lb in over 3 months. You all gave me some hope that everything is OK and I appreciate that. I do worry about my girlfriend's dog, Maggie that she is growing too fast. She is a great pyranees too 9 months old. They are all on the same food and health plan. She is the same size of Pasha. I did not weigh her but she is right there at 75 or 80lb..she eats a lot and her dad was huge...175lb.

fluffylove
02-20-2009, 06:18 PM
You have her on a great food, ,tha'ts one of the best one's out there.
175lbs is HUGE for a pyr, they weren't supposed to be massive because they couldn't do their job as well if they were that big. Whoever is breeding them is doing it far too big. Mary Crane and Seaver both creators of the breed in north america emphasize they are NOT giant dogs, a smaller sound dog is better than a large one. Pyrenean mastiffs are that big, but not pyrs. I'd be concerned about a dog that large. Watch those joints, especially as they get older. Good on you for doing your research. Don't let them do a lot of jumping and careful with the exercise if they are to grow that big.

vin63
02-20-2009, 07:14 PM
I've posted this photo in another thread, but I thought this might help with size comparisons for you and your hopes for your Pyr to be large. My Yellow Lab, Henry, is one of the larger Labs I've known. In fact, he didn't meet the Guide Dogs criteria of being under 90 lbs, so we adopted him as a career change dog. He is 105 lbs. in the photo. So, naturally, many people assume that my current Pyrs are 135+ lbs., but they are both right at 112-115 lbs. I consider my Pyrs to be a little on the large side of average.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj33/vin63/Our%20Puppies/HenrySebastianIsabella2-1.jpg

cardioverter
02-21-2009, 01:12 PM
Since Ermin brought up my dog I thought I would post some photos of her. She is very sweet and definitely stubborn. Her coat is much longer than that of Pasha's but her undercoat is just now starting to come in. The first photo is her in October and the others are from the last week of January. She weighs 73.4 pounds today and will be 10 months old on the 28th of this month. The other little guy in the photo is my spaniel/border mix who weighs 31 pounds.

Ermin
02-21-2009, 01:35 PM
Thank you fluffylove. I am glad that you think that way about Innova EVO dog food. I think it is also one of the best ones out there. They do a lot of quality control on their products. I was little worried about switching my dogs to EVO because they are still young. Maggie is around 10 months and Pasha is 13. They are still considered puppies and Innova EVO representatives do not encourage giving EVO to puppies because they might grow too fast on it. However, I believe that that only applies to really young puppies. My dogs are already young adults almost so I think that giving them EVO would be fine at this point. Would you all agree with that? I could be giving them Innova large breed puppy food but that food is not of the same quality as EVO and it has some grain in it while EVO doesn't. It is really strange thought that EVO is considered as dog food for ALL life stages and breeds and yet representatives do not encourage it for large breed puppies. My dogs stool seem to be OK with EVO..no problem at all and they all really like it. Their stool was fine on Orijen too so they seem to handle 42% protein content really well. Also, another thing I wanted to add is that Orijen which is also considered one of the top dog foods, has large breed puppy dog food with 42% protein content with similar Calcium/Phosphorus ratios..so the way I look at it EVO can't be any worse for large breed puppies then Orijen large breed puppy formula.

2ndPyr
02-22-2009, 05:02 AM
Ermin, and anyone else, I switched my dogs (since passed away) to Canidae about five years ago. We were pleased with it, and that's what we've raised our new (now one year old) Pyr, Sebastian on.
I'm curious if you know anything about Canidae.

Kris

Ermin
02-22-2009, 01:12 PM
Canidae is also very good food. In fact, I consider Innova EVO, Orijen and Canidae to be top 3 dog foods. Canidae is little bit cheaper then the other two. I was interested in their grain-free formulas but then I decided to go with EVO..I don't have a particular reason why I decided to go with EVO. On Innova website they show you long video introduction to their production facility and I liked what I saw. I am a biochemist and I worry about things like quality control so I thought that I had good way of doing things. I am sure that Canidae does just as good job too.

2ndPyr
02-23-2009, 07:16 PM
Great! Thanks for the info.

We also feed Sebastian fruits (except raisins and grapes), he loves apples (he always finishes my core too) and I no longer eat a banana without breaking off pieces for him. I'd rather share good food with him than fatty junky food.

When we had our Psalty (our mix Sammy) and Belle (our Pyr) we treated them to a mix of canned Merricks (more as they got older). Our dogs LOVE that treat!!! And it's pleasenter for us to open it up and it smells like real food. :)

thejonesfamily
02-24-2009, 01:03 AM
I would recommend Innova green vs Innova Evo until at least 2 years old. Also, remember that Pyrs grow until 2-2.5 and should max out at 125 lbs. Our male is 105 at 20 months.

Ermin
02-24-2009, 03:14 PM
Most people think that calcium/phosphorus ratio is too high in EVO compared to other large breed puppy foods. EVO has 1.65:1 calcium to phosphorus while Innova Large Breed Puppy food has 1.23:1 . 2.09% calcium and 1.26% phosphorus is present in EVO while 0.9% calcium and 0.27% phosphorous is present in Innova Large Breed Puppy food. According to AAFCO, calcium should be minimum 1.0% and maximum 2.5% while phosphorus should be minimum 0.8% and 1.6% maximum. Also according to AAFCO, calcium to phosphorus ratio should be minimum 1:1 and maximum 2:1. So as you can see, EVO does not even come close to maximum calcium and phosphorus % values and ratios set by AAFCO. EVO is more like right in the middle while Innova large breed puppy formula is below AAFCO % values both in phosphorus and c/p ratio is set at 1:1 which is minimum value required by AAFCO. I read that bone deformities occur if LB puppies were fed diets with above 3.0% calcium. EVO, as I mentioned is at 2.0% so it is quiet bit less. Also, Innova large breed puppy formula has grain in it and grain is not good for dogs. Dogs like wolfs have meat not grain based diet. I have not looked Innova green bag but I did look at ingredients and they it has grain in it also. EVO is completely grain free. I believe that feeding great pyr puppies dog food with grain in it is much more harmful then feeding them EVO. I can see that EVO could be a problem when LB puppy is really young (up to 8-10 months) when bones are growing pretty quickly. During that time, you have to be really careful. However, after 10 months..bones slow down in growth and majority of bone structure is established so feeding them EVO or Innova large breed puppy food would not make much difference. Due to these reasons, I believe that EVO is OK to be fed in moderate amounts to Great Pyr puppies that are older then 10 months. When you think about it, a dog with genetic predisposition to HD will develop it no matter what food you feed it..if it were fed EVO since birth, that would probably help HD get worse but it would not cause it.

Also, another thing..I have seen great pyrs in places like petsmart or parks and I talked to other pyrenees owners. Every one of them had a male great pyr that is above 140lb. More like in 140-180lb range. In fact, I talked to a guy that had a great pyrenees who is 16 yrs old! His is 165lb. Now I know that AKC says that great pyrenees should be between 80lb-130lb..and that they should live up to 12 yrs. We have to pay attention that AKC is talking about showdog blood line of great pyrenees. Working great pyrenees not only look different but they are much bigger as well. After all, one working great pyr should be able to take down a wolf with no problem and most wolfs are in 150lb range. I read somewhere that one great pyr can hurt a bear while 2 great pyrs could kill it. So in my opinion, a 175lb great pyr is perfectly capable of doing its work..and do it really well too. Maggie's dad who is 175lb killed one of the coyotes that were going after sheep..so that just proves it right there. As long as the dog is athletic and in shape, weight is not an issue.

jmanz6
03-12-2009, 12:18 PM
Our dogs were on Canidae ALS until they changed the formula to add more Mullett and Barley. My Lab had issues with the extra grain so we looked for a new food. When we got Leo at 12 weeks old my wife started looking for a food we could feed all of them without having to have a separate puppy food. She did some research and talked to a couple vet friends and they recommended to us that we find a food with less than 25% protein if we are going to feed it to the puppy too. Since he is going to grow rather large (we have no idea how big since he is a rescue) the vets said the lower protien will slow his growth rate to a point that any possible joint damage from growing too fast would be minimized. Now, there is conflicting research on this lower protein diet but we want Leo to be around for as long as possible and if he takes 2 years to reach full size but possibly has less chance of joint issues then it's fine with us. We are now feeding them all a Natural Balance food that is given to us by a friend who is supposed to be doing an allergy trial with her dogs. Her dogs don't eat kibble (raw only) so she is having us do the allergy trial. The food is a limited ingredient type and has a protein level that is within what we want Leo to have. Leo is 11.5 months old and weighs in at 73 lbs.

Jewel
04-05-2009, 10:34 PM
Was reading through all of the threads and found this one to be particularly interesting. Our previous pyr was a rescue and we suspect she was from a working line as she was found on ranch land at about 3-4 months old. She grew up to be about 80-85 lbs and was very agile. Our current pyr, a 9-month old, is from a show line and she weighs only about 55 lbs right now. She's about 25 inches at the withers, so she's within the breed standard in height though my hope is that she'll reach 26". Her breeder's males, including my pup's father, are in the range of 110-120 lbs. I am not too concerned about her weight as she will continue to grow for the next 2 years. My emphasis when I got this pup is to make sure that she is agile and have good movements. Here in Texas I see a lot of working line prys and most of them are extremely large. So large that many of them can only be described to lumber around as there is nothing limber or agile about them. I was lucky enough with my first pyr that eventhough she was probably from a working line, she was not very large and was a very good mover. Because of that, when I looked for my second pry, I turned to a kennel where the dogs are known for fluid movements. So to me size is not a particularly good thing if the dog can't move properly.