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tina
10-31-2008, 05:24 PM
We recently adopted a 11 week old pry. The first few days went wonderful, but after that she started showing aggressive behavior toward my children. Growling and bitting in a very aggressive way. We were told to grab her by the nap of her neck look her straight in the eyes and say no. It worked with two of the children but not with the 6 and 10 year old. She does'nt behave like that when my husband and I are around. MY 6 yr old shows fear which I know is not a good thing. Everything I read talks about how wonderful they are with children. I know about showing dominace and the order of the pack. Is this typical of a pry puppy. She is now 15 weeks old and there was a time(for about 2 wks) were things got much better. This past week the aggressive behavior seemed to resurface. Any suggestions on how to break this behavior. Like I said she won't do it when my husband and I are around so it's hard to catch her in the act. Do you think this behavior will resolve as she gets older? She seems to love the kids most of the time. They are always running and playing with her and she smothers them with kisses. That's whats puzzling me.

unclebub
10-31-2008, 07:03 PM
Have you tried doing the "alpha roll" yet? I have had two Pyrs... both very good with kids, but they are also obviously very large and powerfull dogs once they are adults, so establishing a good pack order now is a very good idea. Any time a bad behavior is exhibited, roll the dog on her back and hold her down.. even to the point of putting some body weight on her (like a adult wolf would do to a young one...). That seemed to work well for me for both of mine.. Out of curiosity - is there any particular situation that seems to trigger the behavior?

My current Pyr is almost 3 and I have a 5 1/2 year old and almost 2 year old in the house and he is not aggressive towards them at all, my only fear around them is the whole "bull in a china shop" kind of thing - he's likely to accidentally knock them down when he tries to come up and give them "kisses"... he's not aggressive towards them in the least - he's only ever shown any aggression towards one of my other male dogs, that tried to dominate him when he was a puppy (his memory is pretty good in that respect).. and he only does that when I am around in the same area, he tries to get between me and the other dog in what appears to be a protective posture.. at any rate, knowing the breed - I would wonder if something has happened to generate a similar response in your puppy, as they start the protective behavior pretty young...

unclebub
10-31-2008, 07:05 PM
As an additional suggestion - I would try the alpha roll as a general technique even if the dog isn't misbehaving... just to set the "pecking order" anyway....

tina
11-01-2008, 06:40 AM
I wondered if a certain situation triggered that kind if behavior myself. The only thing is she also exhibited that behavior toward myself right after we got her when i tried to pick her food bowl up. She only did it once but i made sure she knew who was boss. My son is always trying to pick her up and drag her around with him my daughter really does'nt do that. She could be pushing her down from getting on the table and the dog will go after her. There really is'nt any rime or reason behind it. We have worked with my son on not picking her up or pulling her by her collar. Like I said everything I read talks about how wonderful they are with kids. I will try holding her down like you said and will have my son do that also. The problem is he is very intimidated by her and has a hard time being firm. Thank you for replying.

unclebub
11-01-2008, 06:45 PM
One of the worst things you can do around any dog is to show fear... which may be what's going on there between the puppy and the kids... of course that may also be a fear response from your puppy if your son is trying to manhandle her too much... there needs to be calm assurance from the humans of all ages toward the dog...
I would say it's good you are addressing this early, and I would expect she'll come around soon enough... I might also suggest maybe some puppy obedience classes for the whole family - it's good instruction for everybody, and generally well worth the money... don't know if you have a Petsmart or similar store in the area, but they generally have such a program.. I did that with my first Pyr, and it was well worth the investment... good luck and keep at it, my Pyrs have really been a winderful addition to my life over the last 17 years!

fluffylove
11-02-2008, 03:19 PM
I had tried alpha rolling and it did not work in acheiving anything but stressing my dog out to the point he licked his paws pink. I found other training methods without food/pinning that worked 100% better. I stressed my dog out pinning him down when the whole time we didn't understand why he was doing the dog agro stuff. Turns out he is an alpha male, a very rare thing, however he has NEVEr harmed a dog, his role is to disciplin, in saying that, he has never pinned a dog down. I'm still puzzled why we think that pinning a dog down will show dominance? A man lived with wolves since they were pups, he maintained his alpha nature for a long time without ever pinning a wolf down. Pyrs are not wolves, so why is it that someone can maintain dominance in a pack of wolves without pinning, but we cannot do it with a domestic dog?
I have seen too much aggression occur from pinning dogs down. Being alpha is much more than throwing a dog down on it's belly. It's teaching them that you can keep the dog safe, that you set the boundaries and rules. Mutual respect, a dog will not respect an owner that throws in on it's back, but more like fear it. How is pinning achieving respect and dominance? Food aggresion is a good one, we did it and ended up with food aggression galore. I have sinced rehabed a bitch that vets (don't get me started on them) siad she had to be killed at 6 months, lots of pinning and spoiling going on. We got her over her crate agro, people agro, stair fears, collar fears and many other things in a few weeks.

Do people even know signs of submission?
My intact 3yr pyr submits to my body language and voice, 100%. He never barks at the door, hardly ever outside anymore, never pulls on lead, comes when called (on lead of course) and best of all sees me as the one in charge and is much happier for it. Neutering never solves the problem. Takes away the testosterone, that's it. If you castrate a man, does it change his personality? Think about it.

unclebub
11-02-2008, 04:08 PM
Actually - my experience with rolling both my Pyrs worked fine.. with a low growl and no harm to either of us.. but as with humans, dogs have different personalities and what works with one may not work with another.. as to the removal of testosterone, it seems that that can work, and is just offered as a suggestion on my part - that's all. Neither one of mine needed it much past their first year and both were / are great on the leash... the barking I get from the 3 year old unmodified male is pretty normal - only when something unknown is going on outside of the fence.. I will say that both my pyrs were indoor / outdoor dogs, both crated, both responded well to leash training, both knew who was in charge (and rolling was only a small part of that - done at suggestion by my original breeder and by several other sources).. I would definately agree that mutal respect is the answer in any human - dog interaction, I see an occasional roll, or growl as much better than beating on any dog.. or causing them to fear you in any way...

tina
11-02-2008, 05:26 PM
Thank you both for your advice. We also have a 12 yr old chow. At first I thought some of the aggressive behavior the pyr was showing was something she picked up from the chow. Over the past yr she has become alittle less tolerant of being clung too. Up until that time the kids could love on her all they wanted and she would take like a champ. She also was'nt happy when the puppy came along. The last 2 days have been great!!! No aggressive behavior toward any of the kids. I'm not convinced that we have resolved the issue. My son likes to get on all 4's and and let the puppy jump all over him. My concern is that may be part of the problem. The puppy likes to nip and bite while they are playing. I don't want to encourage any aggressive behavior. Part of me says their having fun let them bond and the other part of me does'nt want the puppy to think she's in charge. Any advice?

unclebub
11-02-2008, 06:08 PM
Don't know what Fluffylove will say about that, but letting your son get down on the same level physically with your puppy may in fact be part of it... especially letting the nipping behaviour continue isn't a good idea.. letting the dog know it is safe and loved is important.. your dog needs to think of all the humans in the house as being "higher up the rung" and letting them roughhouse (even though it is I am sure fun ;-) ) might be saying to the puppy, I might be able to move up a bit here... not unlike canines in the wild - a lot of puppy play is where pack hierarchy is set.. just a thought

unclebub
11-02-2008, 06:10 PM
Oh yeah - have you posted a pick of your puppy yet? I posted Brinkley yesterday - always love to see new Pyrs!

fluffylove
11-04-2008, 11:56 AM
I have seen Chows that are so friendly, but most very independant and one person dogs. BE VERY CAREFUL WITH YOUR CHILDREN. Children ofte cling to dogs and approach them in a very dominant way, and children can never be expected to hold that alpha role, however both should be respected. If a dog is constantly botherd by kids they will at some point stand up to them, starting with uncomfortable body language, followed by a growl. Do not assume that because a dog growls it will not bite, it will under the right circumstances. Society has this absurd idea that we should be allowed to do anything to dogs that we please, but how is this realistic? IF you see your dog stressing (panting, trying to move away) take the kids away, and perhaps teach the dog the place to go is in the crate if they are feeling stressed, but teach the kids to NEVER go into the crate.

Supervise the play, if the pup starts to get out of hand, put the puppy away. They don't need to wrestle around in the ground like the WWE to get bonded. Pyrs with sheep just stay in their presense and that's how they bond, no wrestling needed. Please protect both your child and dog. Dog's do not want to bite, but it does come down to that. I have seen too many people have this happen to, blame the dog adn then kill the animal when it wasn't their fault saying 'dog bit the kid, it was the dog's fault'.

"...Thank you both for your advice. We also have a 12 yr old chow. At first I thought some of the aggressive behavior the pyr was showing was something she picked up from the chow. Over the past yr she has become alittle less tolerant of being clung too. Up until that time the kids could love on her all they wanted and she would take like a champ. She also was'nt happy when the puppy came along. The last 2 days have been great!!! No aggressive behavior toward any of the kids. I'm not convinced that we have resolved the issue. My son likes to get on all 4's and and let the puppy jump all over him. My concern is that may be part of the problem. The puppy likes to nip and bite while they are playing. I don't want to encourage any aggressive behavior. Part of me says their having fun let them bond and..."