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jeane
04-07-2008, 07:23 PM
Our 7 month old Pyrenees is doing great with the training on leash or in his kennel, But as soon as I say "come" when he's off leash or outside his kennel, he runs around me in circles, growling and barking, running away. If I turn my back and/or walk away, he eventually settles down but still runs to the neighbors. Then, if I try to put him on a leash or grab his collar, it's the same thing-growls, barks, circles, runs away. At first it looked like play--bowing, barking, wagging tail. Is this play or pushing me around?
Now he's no longer wagging the tail, and the mouthing has changed to trying to 'bite' (not a snapping bite, but trying to chew on me). He's getting big, and I'm getting intimidated. Suggestions?

vin63
04-08-2008, 06:37 AM
It appears when he was younger, his behavior was a test for dominance - something he would do to/with his litter mates. Now, it sounds like he is taking the dominant position with you. I think you are going to have to establish yourself as the "alpha" or the leader in the relationship. Good luck.

jeane
04-08-2008, 07:54 AM
OK, Thanks. I can be firm and friendly (rather than pampering him, which I tend to do).
One more question: What do you think of the method of holding the dog down or putting him on his back till he calms and stops growling? Is that cruel? I've probably read too much on training dogs and I'm getting confused. So many differing opinions.

vin63
04-08-2008, 08:05 AM
One more question: What do you think of the method of holding the dog down or putting him on his back till he calms and stops growling? Is that cruel? I've probably read too much on training dogs and I'm getting confused. So many differing opinions.

All of our dogs came from rescue, so they all had questionable backgrounds, particularly the older ones we've rescued. There have been a couple that tried to exhibit dominant behavior toward me when we first brought them home, and I have held them down. The important thing was that I did this the first moment they exhibited this behavior, I immediately took the "alpha" role, so things were fine after that. I imagine it will be different in your case(require a longer period) since your dog has had this behavior for awhile now.

I always look at it this way...if I don't take the leadership role and my dog bites someone, I lose all control of the situation and my dog can be taken away from me, etc.

jeane
04-08-2008, 02:25 PM
Thanks so much. I'll work on it. I really appreciate this website, I'm learning a lot.

sandrad
06-30-2008, 03:37 PM
I am glad to see that there is some activity on this message board. I have posted a question about my puppy biting me but no response yet. My pyr also wants to growl and bark along with nipping me. She is 13wks old and getting big fast. I wonder if I have made a mistake in getting her.
I do wish you the best with your dog.

fluffylove
07-02-2008, 06:32 PM
think about how a dominant dog gets another dog's respect, they use body language, their voices (growl) and then they snap...there is a way to get their respect, it's much easier than throwing a huge down on it's belly, when a dog snaps, usually in contact with the dog's neck/muzzle, the other dog is already submitting...respect is earned, just because you pin a dog down doesn't mean you will be alpha...timid/shy dogs perhaps they will react differently, but I have seen people get bitten badly.
Get a wolf video and watch it, dogs are a far cry from wolves, more like diluted versions of pack behavior, but it exisits to a large degree....watch how the alpha's behave...they are constantly reinforcing their status, from Alpha male/female down to the omega. The discovery channel Saw Tooth Pack, living with wolves and wolves at my door are a great examples. Or watch the guy in England that lived with wolves, was the alpha...he NEVER EVER pinned a dog down adn was alpha, a bit extreme? yes, he lost his entire family, but he did have the wolve's respect until he left one day to meet with the people that worked with the Saw Tooth pack in the US. So why are we still pinning dogs down when a guy did it with his body language and his voice????? Think about it for a second...it's quite remarkable. My boy sumits to me, when we pinned him we never saw signs of submission...lowering head, tail down, head looking to the side, licking lips, lowering body, not fear, submission, be careful not to get the two mixed up. People often get the two mixed up...anxiety/happiness and submission/fear.

GrendsLori
12-11-2008, 08:18 AM
Our 7 month old Pyrenees is doing great with the training on leash or in his kennel, But as soon as I say "come" when he's off leash or outside his kennel, he runs around me in circles, growling and barking, running away. If I turn my back and/or walk away, he eventually settles down but still runs to the neighbors. Then, if I try to put him on a leash or grab his collar, it's the same thing-growls, barks, circles, runs away. At first it looked like play--bowing, barking, wagging tail. Is this play or pushing me around?
Now he's no longer wagging the tail, and the mouthing has changed to trying to 'bite' (not a snapping bite, but trying to chew on me). He's getting big, and I'm getting intimidated. Suggestions?
__________________________________________________ ______________
many things need to be addressed in this post.
1. Anytime a dog "bows" he is playing. PERIOD. A play bow can be defined as a dog saying "don't take offense to whatever I do next. CRUNCH!" That's why dogs play bow before attacking one another in play. Otherwise it would be viewed as an attack.
2. chewing on you is NOT biting. it is playful. He may even be still cutting teeth and what better teeth-soother than a nice soft, but firm hand or arm. Use a DEEP voice, tell him to knock it off and walk away as if you were mad at him. do not play with him again until he gives up trying to play with you. as soon as he sighs and walks away, start playing with him again. YOU control when he plays, and you DO NOT play when he uses his teeth! He will learn. He may try to "up the ante" so to speak, because he will not understand why you will not play with him right away. Be VERY consistent and he will put 2 and 2 together and figure out "OH! Every time I use my teeth, she stops playing with me!"
3. He needs to be taught that grabbing his collar is a good thing. Dogs think grabbing the collar is a threat. 40% of all dog bites are caused by someone grabbing a collar. Combine this with:
4. Come-when called stinks! Everytime he comes to you or you take him by the collar, his fun stops! He is having fun running circles around you! but when he comes to you you grab him by the throat (collar) and put him up. Party-pooper!
5. Stop using the command "Come!" he already knows that means bad news. Start using the word "here!". Teach him that "Here!" means that you will play with him if he just comes to you. All you have to do is get a helper. Stand a foot away from each other. Put the dog on a twenty or thirty foot tether (any good horse tack store will have these) Call his name and when he looks at you say "Here!" When he does, give tons of praise and a good SOFT treat that he can wolf it down. IMMEDIATELY when that treat is swallowed, have the helper do the same thing. Each of you take one step back... Repeat. Take another step back and repeat. Take a third step back and.... repeat! When he gets far enough away from you that you need to keep calling him, pick a phrase or word... like YES! or GOOD, GOOD, GOOD! or kissing noises to fill in the airtime while he is coming to you. DO NOT repeat the "Here!" command. We want him to learn to come the FIRST time you say it, not wait for you to say it ten times before he responds! After a few tries, he will be excited to come to you.
6. Next, when he comes to you touch his collar at the SAME TIME you are giving him the treat. Practice this throughout the day. He will eventually learn that every time youu touch his collar, it is a good thing because it brings treats and praise.
7. Don't get intimidated. Dogs will eat that up and use it against you. He is STILL a puppy.

Hope this helps!

ragingbull83
12-13-2008, 06:53 PM
Ive heard this a lot with the Great Pyr I let my boy go with my golden female in the back yard they ran around and were playing with each other and me but thats his girl havent had any experiences with other dogs but ill keep an eye on that thanks for posting its always good to learn more about my PYR they are a very interesting Dog